When did you realise you didn't like TPM?

If there's any movie to dislike, it's definately the Blues Brothers 2000.

lol

 

Oh wait, that was Blues Brothers 2000

Yeah, that was because Steven Seagal wasn't one of them

 

If Lucas had really put any thought into it, he could have come up with a much better script, and while there would still always be bashers, he could have made it a lot harder for them to be bashing his work. That he didn't I think shows a great lack of foresight and of consideration for the people who helped make him as rich as he is by buying all the toys Hasbro/Kenner has been putting out over the last 25 years.

Ditto!

I see two Jedi enter a doorway to be greeted by a silver 3PO droid. Here's where I started to lose it.

I had always hoped TC-14 would've become parts to build C3P0....

 

Let me ask you bashers a question. Does George Lucas look as stupid as you all think he is? I'm just wondering.

Ignored.

 

This thread is hilarious!

 

Hmmn. I guess it will be tomorrow cuz I still like it.

It's still the bottom of the 5 but I didn't expect it to be any better than it was. I cheered and laughed in the theater. I watched it last week and still enjoyed it.

Maybe tomorrow it will suck?

 

If Lucas had really put any thought into it, he could have come up with a much better script, and while there would still always be bashers, he could have made it a lot harder for them to be bashing his work. That he didn't I think shows a great lack of foresight and of consideration for the people who helped make him as rich as he is by buying all the toys Hasbro/Kenner has been putting out over the last 25 years.

Ditto!

Do you really think GL is CAPABLE of writing a better script? I agree with the script faults, etc, but the actual story is still fantastic, and I think it may have benefitted from a co-writer at the very least. But don't accuse him of "not putting any thought into it." That's an absurd accusation.

I see two Jedi enter a doorway to be greeted by a silver 3PO droid. Here's where I started to lose it.

Uh, I don't get it. Would you rather they were greeted by a wookiee? Han Solo as a child? I actually love the beginning of TPM. It establishes the two schools of thought on the Force; the living force and being mindful of the present versus being overly mindful of the future. It is this conflict that contributes to the eventual demise of the Jedi Order and is completely overlooked by the bashers.

 

The opening crawl sealed the deal for me.

 

The opening crawl sealed the deal for me.

So, you gave it no chance then?

 

Listen here, Slut. (That name kinda has a ring to it, non?)

I gave it the two minutes it took for the opening crawl and my reaction was "oh, no. God no." Spent the rest of the movie praying, but my prayers were not answered.

 

Hutt - Best user name I've seen in ages.


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

"Hutt_Slutt" is better.

 

Uh, I don't get it. Would you rather they were greeted by a wookiee? Han Solo as a child?

Nah, just another Neimodian would've been fine, or an a droid based on the design of the battledroids.

I actually love the beginning... It establishes the two schools of thought on the Force; the living force and being mindful of the present versus being overly mindful of the future. It is this conflict that contributes to the eventual demise of the Jedi Order and is completely overlooked by the bashers.

??? Really not much to "bash" there anyway. It's not that about the Force that bothers me...it's midi-chlorians.

On a side note: Regarding Anakin and the darkside of the Force. For a very long time I perceived the control which the Emperor and the dark side has on Anakin to be much like the "Blood of Kali" in "Temple of Doom." More of an automaton, but with hints of the former person. Just wondering if anyone else had this perception of this at one time.

 

It's not that about the Force that bothers me...it's midi-chlorians.

Does it really strip away the mysticism? Granted, it seems to add a tinge of Dungeons & Dragons to the saga, but it never really bothered me(outside of Jake Lloyd's terrible acting during that whole scene..."Qui-Gon, sir, I was wondering..."). I gives a bit of an explanation and understanding of the Force, and lends itself to the concept of the living Force. Do you not see that?

I think you may be more opposed to the style that midichlorians were introduced rather than the concept itself.

On a side note: Regarding Anakin and the darkside of the Force. For a very long time I perceived the control which the Emperor and the dark side has on Anakin to be much like the "Blood of Kali" in "Temple of Doom." More of an automaton, but with hints of the former person. Just wondering if anyone else had this perception of this at one time

Interesting...I'd never thought of that. It may become more of an interesting comparison after viewing III... ?

 

I think you may be more opposed to the style that midichlorians were introduced rather than the concept itself.

Maybe. If the midi-chlorians were considered less 'intelligent' and more a bio-mechanical thing to focus Force, then maybe... maybe I would've accepted it. Ginn's line of "if we listen to them, and they speak to us.." or something to that effect, really, really ruined it for me. It's like saying that those who use the Force have to "consult" their midi-chlorians before they do anything.

"Excuse, Darth Maul, while ask my midi-chlorians if I should fight you or not..."


I really doubt Lucas would go the "Blood of Kali" way with the Darkside, though, but it sure would explain quite a bit in why people serve him, but...

Do you really think GL is CAPABLE of writing a better script? I agree with the script faults, etc, but the actual story is still fantastic, and I think it may have benefitted from a co-writer at the very least. But don't accuse him of "not putting any thought into it." That's an absurd accusation.

I wish he would've found someone more capable than the Young Indy writer. Lucas comes up with some great concepts, but he needs someone to organize them, put them in a logical order, and then nix ideas that unbalance the film or just plain-don't-work.

I can give one example. Compare the dialogue between Anakin and Amidala on board the frieghter with the dialogue at the waterfalls.... switch 'em. Which seems more fitting in which setting?

That's what I'm talking about.

 

Do you really think GL is CAPABLE of writing a better script? I agree with the script faults, etc, but the actual story is still fantastic, and I think it may have benefitted from a co-writer at the very least. But don't accuse him of "not putting any thought into it." That's an absurd accusation.

No, without someone to weed out his bad ideas, I don't think GL is capable. He DESPERATELY needs someone to help him.

"Story" and "Script have to be separated.
The "Story", 2 Jedi are sent to solve a problem that was a lot bigger than either expected rescue the queen, stumble onto a talented boy, find clues to a bigger puzzle, and help the queen free her planet, is fine.
The "Script", the dialog written to tell the story, was weak. If not for the outstanding success of the original trilogy, I do not think this script would have sparked enough interest to keep the series going.

Lucas may have put a lot of thought into the script, the movie, the story arc, and the effects, but it doesn't show. And if it doesn't show in the final movie, it might as well have never existed.

 

"Oh wait, that was Blues Brothers 2000."

interesting you should bring up Blues Brothers 2000 because i had almost the exact same reaction to both BB2K and TPM which was "did the guy (Lucas/Landis)who made this (sequel/prequel) movie forget everything about (Blues Brothers/Star Wars). they both seemed like films made by people who knew very little about the films that preceeded them.

 

Holy Ben Kenobi

I just saw this thread, but I needed to asnwer this for you....

Almost immediately. The roll-up was vague and without any real panache. As soon as they introduced Amidala as an "elected Queen," and one too young to rule. Sorry, can anyone come up with a young, elected royalty in real life?

Yes, while I am not sure about the age, there HAVE been elected Roylaty in history. Poland led the way for a form of democracy in Europe

The History Of Poland

From that page:

The last Jagiellonian king was Zygmunt-August (1548-1572). He was followed by Henri de Valois, a Frenchman. The next kings were Stefan Batory, a Hungarian, and Zygmunt Vasa, a Swede. The throne of the Polish-Lithuanian union was elective - a democratic feature unknown in other European countries. Foreign princes were elected largely because a Polish king might be considered as a favor for Poland and a Lithuanian one a favor for his country, while a foreigner was neutral.

List of elected Polish Kings

Lucas does base a lot of things on real world equivelants- Not neccisarily direct copies, but combinations of different concepts. Like Midiclorian are related to Midrocondrias, the force and Tao have similar aspects....There have been Youthful rulers and royalties who have been elected.

 

OK, the whole "I can't understand 'elected Queen'" has been answered soooooo mannyyyyy times... I want to thwap these people.
Germanic tradition (Germany, Scandanavia, Poland, Denmark, etc): when the monarch dies, the new one is elected from those available. This includes, but is not limited to, siblings, progeny, cousins, siblings' progeny, and foreign royalty who can get enough support from the local nobles. Of course, only the nobles were allowed to vote... This is how Claudius became king instead of Hamlet. This is why Hamlet's dieing speach includes casting his vote for Fortinbras. Get some %$%&* education people! Read some Shakespeare! He's only the most widely read and translated author on the planet. (The bible was written by many people, which is the only reason it doesn't currently top him.)
There are many, many, many other angles to attack TPM from. Stop making yourselves look dumb and uneducated.

Now, if you want a dumb section on the election: elected queen for 2 terms of 4 years each. THAT makes no sense. That's a president or prime minister or some such. But that's also Ep2.

 

Well, that was rather rude. And, yes, I've read Shakespeare, and I'm familiar with the different rulers of Germanic order which are voted in by other houses, but as you had pointed out, it doesn't function when they have short terms, and are so young.

I just can't imagine a young elected ruler being an effective ruler. I can only imagine that they're figureheads and being used by those beneath them. I would accept it if they were prodigies, and it was rare, but it appears not to be. There she is, Jamilla, her successors, just as young, and Amidala even mentioned she wasn't the youngest ruler. I would start to question, if I were a Naboo, if this was a good way to rule.

"Prince Yulin, what are your orders today?"

(Playing with yo-yo) "Everybody has to wear diapies, like me!"

"Yes, you're highness." (Walks away) "Next time, I'm voting for the other guy."

 

Strangly enough, Padme HERESELF questions weather or not she was ready for being a leader in AOTC. It is also there we leaned that Padme was somthing of a potgeny-entering a school that was an accelerated Political training.

The absolute Monarch for only two terms would make sense in a way. If you think about the democracies and republics, red tape, political in-fighting often slows up progress or changes. With the absolut monarch-they can set a course, and no one can really contradict them. However, as history shows, sometimes you don't want a horrible or visionless or at worse STUPID person at the helm for very long. Thus with the term limit, a fresh viewpoint and direction prevents stagnation from setting in.

It is also could be said that Padme might have been placed their by Palpitine, because he would be able to manipulate her even more. And for the record, I believe the new queen is the SAME age as Padme-she probabbly became queen around 20 or so.

 

Young monarchs can do quite well. Take Queen Elisabeth I. She wasn't old (mid teens? late teens?) when she was crowned. Considering the mess that the country was in, she did an excellent job, and is arguablly the most important woman ever to have lived.

Tutankahmen (probablly misspelled), aka King Tut, was only 8 or 9.

Young/underage monarchs usually had regents holding their position until they were of age.


Yes, that was rude, and I'm sorry. My pattern goes like this:
1st time the question comes up: Blah blah blah
2nd time the question comes up: Blah blah blah blah blah blah
3rd time the question comes up: Blah blah blah BLAH BLAH
458th time the question comes up: AAAAARRRRRGGG BLAAAAAAAHHH BLAH BLAH BLAHDITILLY BLAH! >:
10 minutes later: oops.
Then again, the confusion about the short term stuff doesn't come up til EP2, and consequently, that gripe belongs in the other thread.

 

That's okay. Thanks for your concern and insights.

And thanks for the links, Lukecash for the links. Very interesting.

Still don't like Amidala as a young elected royalty, though...

 

Holy Wan Kanobi
My pleasure- I just sought to let you know that there was precedence. And I can sympathise with the elected queeen problem. That was a negative for me, until I looked into a bit more. (Actually researching my Great-granfathers homeland...thats how I found out about it.) Sometimes, when I find a historical precedent for something that bothers me in a film- then I can accept it more readily. But hey, I'm glad you looked at the info, which is all I asked.

Must say I did have my doubts about TPM when I first saw it. Really, I was so overwhelmed at what happened in them movie- yet, there were things that weren't quite clicking for me.I wasn't sure if I really did enjoy it or not.

I think what helped out considereably for me was that my friend and I watched the originals right before we went to TPM? Upon second and third viewings in the theater- I found myself ejoying it more and more...it felt like Star Wars to me.I made the connection of why and what direction Lucas was going...and I could see the care gone into the design and development of his universe. I also saw the progression of the entire story- thus that things were shiney, new and urban did not bother me in the least.

This may be a stupid thing to ask, but did many of you who disliked TPM watch OT right before going to the theater?

 

Actually researching my Great-granfathers homeland...

Very cool! Are you Polish or from the Germanic world? Did you find royal blood?

I'm a Finlander and nothing but farmer blood all the way... Waaah!! So it was a shock to the family when I became an artist.

found myself ejoying it more and more...it felt like Star Wars to me.

I have to admit I like TPM better than AOTC in some ways. I would elaborate, but you've probably heard it already.