PT When does Obi Wan Kenobi become a Jedi Master?

I know that there was an old thread on this some years ago, however I was re-watching attack of the clones recently and I noticed that in the movie he is named as a Jedi master by various people: Palpatine, Senator Amidala and possibly some members of the council. The old thread said that he was still a knight in Geonosis though, can anybody clear up exactly when and why Obi Wan becomes a Master and when he joins the council (I know that doesn't happen until after the outbreak of the Clone Wars).

Many thanks

 

He gets the level of Jedi Master when he trains Anakin to knighthood. He's referred to as 'Master Jedi', 'Master Obi-Wan', etc as sort of honorific. It has nothing to do with rank.

 

By the time of ROTS he's on the Council which is pretty much a sign you're either a Master or well on the path to be, so presumably it's sometime in the intervening years between films. As Alexrd points out a lot of it is purely honorific and respectful rather than being any real indication of rank or status. Even Qui-Gonn was referred to several times by the 'Master' title but given his status as a contrarian I can't see him ever being granted it as a formal rank (or caring much either way.)

On the other hand Anakin is expressly stated to be as powerful as a ''Master'' but doesn't get to call himself as such and the privileges accorded as such because of other issues with his mindset and behaviour, so at least part of it is a 'promotion' of sorts.

 

The Databank uses the phrase "Jedi Master" for Qui-Gon at least.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/qui-gon-jinn

Maybe his maverick streak only really became pronounced after he became a Master - less supervision, more opportunity to go his own way.

 

Could be. And Obi-Wan does say Qui-Gonn would be a shoe in for a Council seat if it weren't for his rebellious streak. In either case he wouldn't be overly concerned by the distinction, Living Force and all that... what your official job title may be is largely by the by, all that matters is what you do and he'd do that whether Knight or Master.

 

Qui-Gon was a Jedi Master, his sometimes defiant attitude doesn't deny that. Obi-Wan pretty much establishes that when he says to him that he could be on the Council had he followed the code more strictly. You can't be part of the Jedi Council without being a Master.

 

Sure. But there's being a Master in the sense of you've earned the title and the responsibilities and it's a promotion of sorts from Knight, but until the War broke out the implication seemed to be Masters were more scholarly or political types who stayed at the Temple, which was never Jinn's bag. Like I say, ultimately as far as Qui-Gonn was concerned the whole thing was bupkiss. And similarly I don't imagine Kenobi being overly worried about the distinction, he was too humble for it to concern him. Anakin was the only character to really kick off and make a fuss about ''Mastery'' and he was clearly shown to be wrong (or at least in contrast to Jedi ideals) to do so.

 

That wasn't established till ROTS: "Put me on the Council and not make me a master. It's never been done in the history of the Jedi Order". And Anakin could have been in error, having not properly done the research - since Ki-Adi Mundi had been established as a Knight rather than a Master in the TPM Visual Dictionary, and the TPM novelization said that most of the Council were Masters, not all.

However, in the context of the newcanon - the default position seems to be that Ki-Adi was a Master before his promotion to the Council.

 

It would have been nice to see him being granted the rank of master and Anakin the rank of Knight in a Clone Wars episode.

 

A couple of months or weeks after Episode II and before TCW Season 1




http://www.starwars.com/databank/obi-wan-kenobi-biography-gallery

 

The Clone Wars cartoon adds another layer to why Anakin makes a fuss. If Anakin were a master on the council at the time Ahsoka was expelled, he would have had a vote at her trial. In that light Anakin's fuss is a bit more selfless, he hoped to guide the Jedi Order in a direction he felt was more just.

On the Clone Wars Cartoon show -- I think it's after Darth Maul's return that Obi-Wan sits on the Council.

 

ROTS confirms to the audience what promotional material from TPM stated about the character: "a maverick Jedi Master..."[/quote]

 

I wasn't talking about Qui-Gon - but about the notion that only Masters can be on the Council - early tie-in material (TPM Visual Dictionary etc) portrayed Ki-Adi as a Knight - and the TPM novelisation said most of the Council were Masters.

 

In the old canon Obi-wan would become a Jedi Master when Anakin was successfully knighted.

As for Jedi Master being the only ones allowed to join the Council, I think it was stated that Ki-Adi-Mundi joined the Council before becoming a Master (at least in the old canon).

 

Yup. After ROTS, it was suggested that he was going through the promotion process from Knight to Master - but it wasn't quite complete when he joined the Council - so he was technically still a Knight, but his promotion came through soon afterward.

 

I wasn't talking about EU and the like. I'm talking about promotional material of TPM, like official synopsis and descriptions of each character in marketing material.

Yes, the EU was a pathway to many stories, some considered to be "unnatural".

 

I wonder that too. Anakin does not become a knight until after AOTC (according to the clone wars series). But in AOTC they are already calling Obi Wan "Master Kenobi".

So it cannot be that their padawan must have become a knight before a knight can become a master.

You could reasonably assume that anyone who teaches a pupil must be a master. For Obi Wan though, it would appear that he went from Padawan to Master almost immediately since he assumes the role of teacher for Anakin in place of Qui Gon.

 

Usually it's non-Jedi using the phrase "Master Jedi". Doesn't Anakin get addressed that way too, a few times?

 

Which was exactly what I was referring to - the TPM Visual Dictionary sounds like it qualifies as "marketing material" to me.

 

He is referred to as master by Anakin throughout the film, naturally.

But he's also called Master Kenboi or Master Obi Wan by the Jedi Archive lady, byCount Dooku, and byYoda in the youngling scene and at the end

 

In real life, "master" is sometimes used in place of "mister" for younger men, by older people.

 

True. But I'm sure nobody is called mister in Star Wars so I don't think the same conjugation, if you like, was intended.

 

There was Mister Bones, in Aftermath. Retrospectively, 3PO always using "Master Luke" might be this, rather than pure subservience.

 

"Master" can be used as an honorific or as rank status. Obi-Wan is Anakin's master, but he has the rank of Jedi Knight. He's referred to as "Master Jedi" or "Master Obi-Wan" out of respect, not as a reference to internal Jedi rank. You can replace Obi-Wan by any other Jedi and it wouldn't make a difference. Sio Bibble refers to Anakin as "Master Jedi" because it's an honorific for someone experienced and wise (both associated with the Jedi). It's Padmé who calls out that's he's still only a Padawan, not a full Jedi Knight.

 

That's because 3PO is a servant and calls everyone Master or by their rank.

The tile of master in real life is used to refer to young men before they reach adulthood. Not simply by old people to refer to people younger than them. So unless everyone in the movie likes to tease Obi Wan with cheeky anachronisms that can easily be confused with the rank of Master, then I doubt that meaning is implied. Particularly when Yoda does it here

I can easily conceive a distinction between the role of a master and the rank of Master. But nowhere does the movies attempt to make that distinction.

The constant is Obi Wan referred to as Master by Jedi and non Jedi, young and old alike.

It personally does not trouble me all that much. Just one of those things.

Except perhaps that the council are skeptical about Obi Wan being ready to be a knight and are very soon making him a master by giving him his first apprentice, if that's the definition of Jedi Master.