CT When exactly did Vader find out that Luke was his son?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by darthbarracuda, Nov 5, 2013.

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  1. darthbarracuda Jedi Master

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  2. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

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    Sometime before TESB, well he had a feeling anyway.... it wasn't till Sidious confirmed this that he realises Luke is his son
  3. darthbarracuda Jedi Master

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    When did ol' Palpy confirm in?
  4. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

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    The 04 version of TESB... He tells Vader that he has no doubt that he is Anakin's son... When vader asks how it is possible, Sidious tells him to search his feelings
    Last edited by Darth Raiden, Nov 5, 2013
  5. darthbarracuda Jedi Master

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    Oooooohhhh yeaaaaah I totally forgot thanks
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  6. timmoishere Force Ghost

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    Vader found out shortly after ANH, when he tortured a captured Rebel pilot about the identity of the one who blew up the Death Star. He heard the name Skywalker and put two and two together.

    In ESB, Vader was pretending he didn't know.
  7. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Do you include the "tortured a captured Rebel pilot" bit of information in your headcanon, but exclude the scene from The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader where Vader is still shocked that Luke is actually his son?
  8. timmoishere Force Ghost

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    I have not had the opportunity to read TR&FODV, actually. But the torture of the captured Rebel pilot has been a part of the canon for several years.
  9. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    TR&FODV does mention the captured Rebel. The main reason I asked, was that you've quoted the scene where Vader's watching the Larses die on the holocomm, and that book was the first to mention it.

    Some time later, Vader's dwelling on the name "Skywalker" for the pilot who destroyed the Death Star:

    The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader
    Could there have been other Skywalkers from Tatooine? Vader allowed the possibility. After all, it wasn't an entirely uncommon name in the galaxy.
    But Anakin and Padme Amidala had been expecting a baby nineteen years ago.
    Nineteen standard years.
    It's not possible,Vader thought.I killed Padme. The baby died with her.
    Not for the first time, he wondered if the Emperor had told him the whole truth about Padme's death.But I remember choking her ... seeing her collapse on Mustafar. I was so angry with her. And yet ...
    Luke Skywalker exists.
    Vader refused to believe the notorious Rebel's surname was merely a bizarre coincidence. If he had possessed any other name, Vader would not have hesitated to report what he had learned to the Emperor. But for purely selfish reasons, Vader kept the young Rebel's name to himself. To him, Luke Skywalker was more than a mystery to be solved.
    He is ... an opportunity. As strong with the Force as he may be, he is an opportunity ... an opportunity for even greater power.
    But who is he? Who were his parents? Could he have been Obi-Wan's son? But then why was he named Skywalker and raised by the Lars family? Or was he merely trained by Obi-Wan?
    Because Obi-Wan Kenobi, Shmi Skywalker, Owen and Beru Lars, and Padme Amidala were dead, there was only one way Vader could discover the truth. He would have to ask Luke Skywalker himself. All he had to do was find him.

    and later, the scene in ESB is shown from Vader's point of view.

    The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader
    "What is thy bidding, my Master?"
    From light years away, on Coruscant, the Emperor replied, "There is a great disturbance in the Force."
    "I have felt it," Vader said.
    "We have a new enemy. The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."
    Offspring?! The surviving tissue in Vader's throat suddenly went dry. Through his shock, he managed to say, "How is that possible?"
    Without offering any explanation to support his stated conviction, the Emperor answered, "Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us."
    Having fought Luke Skywalker on Mimban, Vader was even more aware of the young man's powers than was the Emperor. But he also knew something else; Luke was as ignorant of their familial connection as Vader had been. If he had known the truth on Mimban, Vader thought, I would have sensed it. Still grappling with the Emperor's declaration, he struggled to find words that might discourage his Master's interest in Skywalker. "He is just a boy," Vader said. "Obi-Wan can no longer help him."
    The Emperor believed otherwise. "The Force is strong with him," he said. "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."
    The Emperor had not said in so many words that he wanted Luke Skywalker dead, so Vader — needing Skywalker alive to accomplish his goals — took a different tack. "If he could be turned," Vader suggested, "he would become a powerful ally."
    "Yes," the Emperor mused, as if he had not thought of that possibility. Vader could only imagine what the Emperor was thinking. The Sith had long maintained their rule of two: one Master, one apprentice. Even Vader knew that there wasn't room enough in the galaxy for three Sith Lords, and yet the Emperor's hooded eyes seemed to sparkle as he said more emphatically, "Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?"
    "He will join us or die, Master," Vader said. He bowed, and the Emperor's hologram faded out.
    Now that the Emperor was interested in Luke Skywalker's fate, Vader knew he had to do everything in his power to find Luke before the Emperor found him.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 6, 2013
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  10. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    Thats the EU story.

    ESB takes place 3 years after ANH. The opening crawl of ESB says Vader is obsessed with finding Luke. So clearly at some point between the two movies Vader found out who he is through an interogation (as the EU suggests) or some Imperial Spy (maybe the ISA was listening in on Leia's phone calls). He could have bought the infomation on the black market etc...
    Last edited by sluggo1313., Nov 6, 2013
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  11. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    I prefer that Vader's obsession with finding Luke, is not because he knows Luke is his son,

    but because he knows Luke, who is strong in the Force and blew up the Death Star, is the greatest threat to the Empire that currently exists.

    "Vader's pretending he doesn't know who Luke really is" - is actually contradicted by the EU- which takes his "How is that possible?!" line as sincere, not fake.
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  12. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    Well when the opening Crawl happens the audience doesn't know Vader = Anakin Skywalker, so thats how its meant to be read.

    And the text from that book doesn't match what is said in the movie. The Emperor tells Vader about Luke and that he could destroy them, Vader responds - He is just a boy - so clearly Vader has SOME Knowledge of Luke at this point, and isn't hiding that fact from the Emperor.
  13. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Yup. What knowledge, is left to the imagination.

    Splinter of the Mind's Eye (one of the first novels published after ANH) has him already know Luke Skywalker is a farmboy from Tatooine.

    So, in the EU, he knows nearly everything at this point (such as that Luke was raised by the Larses on Tatooine) - he just keeps rejecting the possibility that Padme had a child before she died.

    And the text from that book doesn't match what is said in the movie.



    Actually it does:


    why was he named Skywalker and raised by the Lars family? Or was he merely trained by Obi-Wan?
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 6, 2013
  14. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    But thats EU so.......who cares.

    Maybe Vader was only able to find out his first name and its not until that scene that he finds out Luke is a Skywalker.
    Last edited by sluggo1313., Nov 6, 2013
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  15. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    EU answers are valid in this forum- the only rule is against insisting that "the EU answer is the only valid answer".

    It all depends on if you think Vader's pretending to be surprised, or not.
  16. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    EU answers are never valid. NEVER

    I don't think Vader is/sounds/seems surprised, so if he is pretending he isn't doing a very good job of it.


    No it doesn't. In the movie the Emperor never says - "The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker." Vader never says "How is this possible" so the Emperor never tells him to search his feelings. All that doesn't match whats in the movie,.
    Last edited by sluggo1313., Nov 6, 2013
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  17. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    This is the scene from the movie, from Blue Harvet.net

    INTERIOR: VADER'S STAR DESTROYER -- VADER'S CHAMBER

    The Dark Lord, Darth Vader, is alone in his chamber. A
    strange sound enters the room and a light begins to play
    across Vader's black figure. He looks up and bows quickly.
    A twelve-foot hologram of the Galactic Emperor materializes
    before Vader. The Emperor's dark robes and monk's hood are
    reminiscent of the cloak worn by Ben Kenobi. His voice is even
    deeper and more frightening than Vader's.

    VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

    EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

    VADER: I have felt it.

    EMPEROR: We have a new enemy -- Luke Skywalker.

    VADER: Yes, my master.

    EMPEROR: He could destroy us.

    VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

    EMPEROR: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not
    become a Jedi.

    VADER: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.

    EMPEROR: Yes. Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?

    VADER: He will join us or die, my master.

    Vader kneels. The supreme Emperor passes a hand over the
    crouched Lord of the Sith and fades away.
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    The movie was revised. Are you thinking of the VHS version of the movie, or the first Special Edition version, or what?

    The version of ESB that has Ian McDermid replace the original person playing the Emperor, is the one with the extra lines that the book quotes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Strikes_Back
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 6, 2013
  19. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    You're right, they added it in on the 4th re-do of that scene (the 3rd with Ian McDermid).

    However, Vader still doesn't sound surprised at all.
    Last edited by sluggo1313., Nov 6, 2013
  20. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Limitations of James Earl Jones's voice, especially with sound effects modifying it.

    Different people will have different interpretations, obviously- but he sounded surprised to me.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 6, 2013
  21. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    he got the "noooooo" and the emotion behind that in there just fine.

    They didn't get rid of his "he is jsut a boy" line, so clearly Vader is still aware of Luke, who Luke is (the pilot who blew up the Death Star), and the crawl hasn't changed, so Vader is obsessed with finding him. Without any evidence (and sorry, EU is not evidence) of Vader knowing Luke is Luke Skywalker, it would seem like the Emperor surprsied him with the news.

    Also, even if Vader knew the name....how many Skywalkers are out there? The Emperor's dialog doens't jus tsay "Its Luke Skywalker", he says he is Anakins son. It could very well be that both vader and the Emperor knew the name Skywalker for a long time, and the Emperor just deduced or found out that he is Anakin's son recently.


    So ya - Vader become aware of Luke as an individual, and become obsessed with finding him at some point during the 3 year gap between ANH and ESB. And we see in ESB that Luke is in Rogue Squadron, so its also possible he become more and more well known among the Imperials during that 3 years, if he was leading/part of one of their top fighter squadrons and was involved in taking out important targets. But it seems like the Emperor (either through spies or bought info most likely) figured out Luke Skywalker = Vaders son.
    Last edited by sluggo1313., Nov 6, 2013
  22. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    So ya - Vader become aware of Luke as an individual, and become obsessed with finding him at some point during the 3 year gap between ANH and ESB. And we see in ESB that Luke is in Rogue Squadron, so its also possible he become more and more well known among the Imperials during that 3 years, if he was leading/part of one of their top fighter squadrons and was involved in taking out important targets. But it seems like the Emperor (either through spies or bought info most likely) figured out Luke Skywalker = Vaders son.
  23. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    "That is the system, and I'm sure Skywalker is with them."

    So, he knows the guy he's looking for is called Skywalker, at least, at the beginning of the movie.

    The point I've been trying to make is that the EU answer is exactly in line with your argument- Vader and the Emperor both knew that the guy who blew up the Death Star was called Skywalker, from not too long after the Battle of Yavin. And that Vader learned that "Skywalker" was "the offspring of Anakin Skywalker" in that briefing scene.
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  24. sluggo1313. Jedi Master

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    I forgot that line, he does know. He may not know that they are related, but he does know thats Lukes name.

    Thats the thing, we don't know that they found out not long after the battle of Yavin. The EU has suggested they found out not long after.
  25. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Yup. Consistant with:

    It could very well be that both vader and the Emperor knew the name Skywalker for a long time, and the Emperor just deduced or found out that he is Anakin's son recently.
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