CT When exactly did Vader find out that Luke was his son?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by darthbarracuda, Nov 5, 2013.

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  1. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Would you please stop taking cheap potshots at the EU? It's tiresome and all it does is provoke arguments.
  2. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
  3. Sith-Mullet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2003
    star 3
    I think that the Rebels put out a taunting press release that read "Rookie Rebel Pilot Luke Skywalker delivers fatal torpedoes to the Death Star with the help from his little band of friends." Once Vader realizes this is his son, he gets a little choked up with a sense of pride saying, "That's my boy." :p
  4. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    It's not random EU bashing. I enjoying interpreting the movies, but those of us who want to interpret the movies based solely on what happens in the movies always get shouted down by the EU-loyalist committee.

    This thread is a perfect example of what happens all the time in here. Someone asks a movie related question "When did Vader discover Luke was his son?". Someone else chimes in with a purely EU answer about the "tortured rebel pilot." Then most of the rest of the thread devolves into a discussion about the various EU interpretations of the original question (and please note all this took place before I jumped in). So I'm trying to get the topic back in line with a purely-movie discussion, which is what, IMHO, the OP originally had in mind.

    I make no secret of the fact that I dislike the EU, but I can't find the forum rule that says criticizing the EU is not permitted in this forum.
    Last edited by Beezer, Nov 30, 2013
  5. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Criticizing the EU is one thing. Calling it garbage and eagerly awaiting how E7 will destroy it (despite the fact that you hsve zero evidence that that will even occur) is quite another. Bashing accomplishes nothing, and all it does is incite a fight. If you have your own opinion about the topic, feel free to chime in. But you can't just throw out cheap shots at the EU anytime it's mentioned on these forums. Your Cliegg meme as well as the first sentence of your second post are purely there to bash the EU. The remainder of your second post is perfectly acceptable.

    Then by all means create your own thread which specifies that there will be no EU answers whatsoever. You have no jurisdiction otherwise.

    Furthermore, the OP did not ask a movie-related question, since the movie does not address how Vader found out about Luke. And since the OP did not ask for this thread to contain no EU answers, you have no cause to object to the EU being used here.

    So please just stop with the EU bashing. Mod edit: Not appropriate
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Nov 30, 2013
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  6. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Back on topic, people
  7. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    I have a question regarding this topic...how the hell did the Emperor know that Luke is Vadakin's son? Vadakin never told the Emperor that Padme is pregnant nor if she and Vadakin were having a son or daughter (or maybe both at the same time) and when the Emperor told Vadakin that he killed Padme, he too believed it to be true since they both spent 2 decades believing that Padme died while she's still pregnant. The scene of the Emperor informing Vadakin of Luke didn't bother me back when the prequels didn't exist but after Revenge of the Sith came out in theaters, I was puzzled as to how the Emperor would know who Luke is without being told about the pregnancy.
  8. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Well, Vader found out about Luke independently from Palpatine. It's not inconceivable to think that Palpatine could have found out about him independently from Vader.
  9. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I think during E3, Sidious pretty much knew everything that was going on with Anakin. One way or another, he obviously knew Anakin and Padme were in a serious relationship, even though it was officially still a secret (the worst kept secret in the galaxy). Did he know they were married? Probably, but that doesn't really matter. Plus, it was pretty obvious she was pregnant because she started showing - not to mention she was buried in such a way to give the impression she died before giving birth.

    I think the Jedi successfully pulled off a fast one on our Sith Lord friends, which enabled Luke and Leia to remain undetected for 18+ years. Luke was so far out in the Outer Rim, he could use his name freely (which was probably an extremely unwise thing, but we have to ignore that for story telling purposes). Leia had to take her adopted family's name since she was a prominent citizen.
  10. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    There's always that "search your feelings"/"trust your instincts" thing going on with the Jedi and Sith.

    I would think that Luke's name would get out as the Rebels try to rally more systems to their cause. Luke is like a poster boy hero for giving the galaxy hope. He's some farm boy from some backwater world that took out the Empire's battle station in a starfighter. I think that's something the Rebels would want to advertise.

    So then Vader catches wind that the pilot that he sensed was strong with the Force that he was chasing down the trench is named "Skywalker." Obi-Wan had resurfaced after decades in hiding, earlier while on the Death Star. And re-winding back to ROTS, Padme was unaccounted for in Vader's mind after he had been defeated by Obi-Wan. So Obi-Wan could have retrieved her body and rescued his child as far as he knew.

    It's hard to tell if Vader would even view Palpatine as a liar at that point. Because all Palpatine says is that "it SEEMS in your anger... you killed her." Palpatine never said that he found her body or anything. So Palpatine might have merely learned of Padme's death from reports on Naboo prior to her wake (as far as Vader is concerned).

    So I think Vader would become highly suspicious when there's a Force sensitive "Skwalker" that shows up around the same time as Obi-Wan. Though perhaps Vader didn't know with 100% certainty and it wasn't until Palpatine reinforces the idea of Luke being Anakin's son that Vader knows for certain.

    As far as how Palpatine knew Padme was pregnant, it could have been sensing Anakin's thoughts or through merely knowing via the Force in the same was that Leia "always knew" that Luke was her brother. Obi-Wan even knew in ROTS and AFAIK, Anakin never told him. I don't know if it was a well kept secret that Padme was pregnant, but there was probably some suspicion as to who the father was, and for people like Obi-Wan and Palpatine, it probably wasn't hard to figure out.
  11. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Not only that, but also the fact that this farm boy pilot was the son of Annikin Skywalker, deceased Jedi Knight and 'hero' of the Clone Wars.
    Last edited by TOSCHESTATION, Dec 1, 2013
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  12. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    I remember reading that in real life, the "bump" doesn't go down immediately after birth, but takes a while to go down.

    Since Padme died immediately after giving birth- it's possible that no particular measures would need to be taken to make her look "still pregnant".
  13. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    I guess it depends on how soon afterwards Padme's wake was. The ROTS novel shows that Yoda wanted to ensure that Padme still appeared pregnant, so that no one would suspect the baby had survived.
  14. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    So is Splinter of the Mind's Eye canon? Awesome.
  15. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    I think he was testing vader or had hopes Luke would kill him and become his new, more powerful apprentice... Anakin's powers were massively clipped when he got the cyborg parts and iron lung.
  16. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Yes, all EU is canon, although there are different canon levels: G, T, C, S, and N. The movies are G-canon, while most of the EU novels are in the C-canon level. As far as the first three levels are concerned, the only practical differences between them is that if a contradiction arises, the higher-level material takes precedence.
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  17. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    However, this is a movie forum, and the EU (and its subsequent 'canon') doesn't need to be taken into consideration at all. Users can take it or leave it as they wish, this isn't the place for canon debates, or taking discussions into territory that's only supported by the EU. That's what the Literature and EUC forums are for.

    Splinter of the Mind's Eye is an odd kettle of fish, though, its status in the LFL canon aside. If Star Wars hadn't been such a blockbuster, it could have been the second Star Wars film, not ESB.
  18. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    I hope not all of it is cannon, some of the early novels, the young Jedi perhaps? Awful stupid junk. I am correct, right? Luke and Vader fought on Mimban in that story? That's why I mentioned it.
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Yup- they fought on Mimban in Splinter of the Mind's Eye- and The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader repeats the scene. It also provides a reason why Vader talks about killing Luke rather than capturing him as was his original intent- the Dark Side in him has been enhanced by proximity to the crystal- so he himself is surprised at what's coming out of his mouth.
  20. badluckhulahula Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Maybe he had a 50/50 idea when he met Padme' After saving Palpatine. And she had something wonderful to tell him. Or when the Emperor told him the "son of Skywalker" memo on the super stardestroyer.
  21. Master Mini 907 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2013
    star 3
    Episode 5. When Vader is talking to Sidious, Sidious says that he believes the young rebel who destroyed is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker/Vader
  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    The question is though- when Vader goes "How is that possible?" - is he play-acting, having known Luke was his son for a long time already- or is his surprise genuine?

    The EU eventually went with "genuine" - in The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader - but that doesn't mean for certain that Lucas intended it to be that way- all we can do is guess.
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  23. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Ah....EU plot-hole rationalization at it's best. :rolleyes::p ;)
    Last edited by TOSCHESTATION, Dec 8, 2013
  24. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    In Splinter, he was still a thousand times more rational than a certain someone claiming to be Obi-wan Kenobi.
  25. JediKnightOB1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 5
    That was pretty funny. If I was on Tatooine, Blue Milk would have shot out of my nose. [face_rofl]
    Sith-Mullet likes this.
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