When Lucas finally decided to make Leia the twin sister of Luke.

This has been a much debated topic for many years. Lucas has said it was always about the twins, Luke & Leia. Other people say he didn't have that in mind during ANH, and others say he didn't decide it until ROTJ.

I think he decided it in ESB. At the start Leia smooches Luke, and that throws you off, thinking they could eventually be a couple. But if you watch the end of ESB when Leia senses Luke hanging from the tower, Lucas had to have in mind Leia's was Luke's sister. She was sensing him through the force, and that is why they went back to get him.

So I personally think Lucas had Luke & Leia as siblings in ESB, do you guys agree or disagree. Does anyone else analyze it a different way?

 

It was definitly during ROTJ.

The "other" that was mentioned in ESB was written in even without any concrete plans as to whom it would be--its primary function was a plot device to put Luke in greater jeapardy. Lucas deliberately left it vague and open-ended so he could write in whatever was convenient--at the time, the saga was to be a nine-parter, with the "other" being Luke's sister who would appear in episode 6 or 7 and eventually the two of them would confront and defeat the Emperor together; Darth Vader was not to be redeemed, obviously. After the troubles in ESB's production Lucas basically realized that doing another four episodes would take him at least ten more years and he was growing tired of star wars, so he combined all of his story points for episodes VI-IX into one final movie and shifted the emphasis to redeeming Vader. Lucas' vagueness on the "other" that was breifly mentioned payed off for him, as the story point was quickly done away with by simply making Leia the "other"/sister.

 

I agree with everything you said, and it definitely makes sense. But why does Leia sense Luke in the Millenium Falcon at the end of ESB when he is hanging from the tower?

 

Because they were close friends and had strong feelings for each other. I mean she was important enough to Luke for him to risk everything and try to save her--heck, they were kissing earlier in the movie, and all throughout ANH, Luke was in love with her! It makes sense that they share some kind of force-connection. Vader can sense Obi Wan because they were close friends, its the same thing with Luke and Leia. People try to take that as evidence that it was always intended they be siblings but it is no more logical than saying Vader and Obi Wan are brothers--they were like brothers, which is why they have such a strong connection to each other that they can sense one anothers presence, just as Luke and Leia were kinda like brother and sister, in the sense that they were very close to each other.

 

"Darth Vader was not to be redeemed, obviously"

Really? It seems like Lucas would redeem Vader in epsidoes 6-9, not just have him die evil. That has a better story and is makes more sense.

 

Vader was supposed to be redeemed as planned in ROTJ, however for Ep 7-9 it was to be Luke's sister that was tempted to go to the darkside.

The Emperor (having survived ROTJ) manipulates the twin into believing that Luke maliciously and viciously murdered their father Darth Vader. EP 7 and 8 would've been Brother vs. sister until Ep 9 when they were to team up against the Emperor.

 

Even when Lucas decided to end it with ROTJ, the early drafts dont really have him being redeemed either, at least not on the level that exists in the final film.

As for the brother vs. sister thing, that is news to me. I have a feeling that it is merely a bogus rumor since it doesnt correlate to any other information. The whole Episode VI-IX thing was barely even developed--it was more "yeah, maybe we could have Luke's sister show up in episode six or seven, and shes been training as a jedi across the galaxy and then they team up and beat the Empire". Literally. There wasnt any development done beyond that, since the plan was jetisoned before it really got off the ground.

 

You guys have to remember in ANH, there were no other SW movies, that was it. So if Lucas wanted to tell pplz that they were twins in ANH, then he would have done it. I don't think he thought of this until ESB, but i KNOW he didnt think of it in ANH.

 

I agree with most of what zombie said. However, there's one particular thing that's always bothered me. If Lucas didn't know from the outset that Leia was going to be related to Vader, why did he give her a personality so similar to his? In my opinion, Leia is much, much more like their father than Luke is.

 

Oh come on, she's just a spunky, in-your-face, ass-kicking woman. Its all part of the snappy style of ANH. You could say the same thing about Han Solo too. It does help tie together the saga luckily--i never even really thought about Leia's attitude being similar to Anakin's but your right on that.

 

I agree with most of what zombie said. However, there's one particular thing that's always bothered me. If Lucas didn't know from the outset that Leia was going to be related to Vader, why did he give her a personality so similar to his? In my opinion, Leia is much, much more like their father than Luke is.

vs.

You guys have to remember in ANH, there were no other SW movies, that was it. So if Lucas wanted to tell pplz that they were twins in ANH, then he would have done it. I don't think he thought of this until ESB, but i KNOW he didnt think of it in ANH.

 

If you watch the ESB DVD with the audio commentaries you can notice that Lucas himslef says "the other" was layd out in ESB to show the audience that Luke was not the allpowerful heroe that will succeed no matter what. "The Other" was put there so that Luke could seem more vulnerable. Lucas even calls it a "cheap trick" to accentuate Luke's vulnerability.

For me, it seems that Lucas took advantage of that ESB trick to kick in the idea of the twins. He did release ESB and ROTJ as episodes V and VI. Maybe he made things in ROTJ to fit with the prequels, like the deleted scene of Obi Wan telling Luke that Owen was his brother. He released those movies, telling us that there were other episodes before them . . . . .the lame ones.

 

Luke and Leia certainly sound like "twin" names. I think GL never really intended to do 7-9 and Leia was pretty much always going to be Luke's twin. The whole 7-9 arch just sounds like such a supershadow plot treatment that I cannot believe GL ever seriously thought about making them. I hate the "Luke and Leia team up to defeat the emperor." Jedi teaming up or combining powers is such a lame EU idea. Why wouldn't GL take out the kiss in ESB if he decided later on that Leia would be Luke's sister? It was another device to ensure we didn't figure out it was Leia that Yoda referred to as "another."

 

I think it was when he was writing the script for ESB.


ROTS_Obi1

 

Luke and Leia would not team up to fight the Emperor because Leia was not going to be his sister.

The full plot would have gone like this: while Luke is training on Dagobah, Luke's twin sister, who was hidden on the other side of the galaxy, is also undergoing the same jedi training. She would be introduced in an upcoming episode and the two of them would fight as jedi knights together and avenge their father by killing Vader and then the Emperor. Obviously, this is from the first draft of ESB, since Lucas didnt hit upon making Vader Luke's father until the all-important second draft.

But it is true. Some of the ideas from this dropped story point were later incorperated into the Mara Jade character when Timothy Zahn was conferencing with Lucas about the Heir to the Emperor trilogy.

 

"But why does Leia sense Luke in the Millenium Falcon at the end of ESB when he is hanging from the tower?"

Maybe because he was calling out to her?

"why did he give her a personality so similar to [Vader's]?"

eorge Lucas: "I felt I needed to have a woman in the script. The interesting thing is she does get in jeopardy, but she is very capable of taking care of herself; she is a central characters, and I wanted a woman to be at the center of the story. I knew I didn't want to have three guys. It wouldn't have been nearly as interesting. She is a leader, and even though she gets captured, the guys are the ones who are fumbling around and being in trouble...I mean, they can't even rescue her!" - Annotated Screenplays

Question answered. Its about the part she was supposed to play - not about who she was related to.

 

Nice one Eric,..you still don't know who I am.

 

LOL....I certainly do, Kev.

 

If we are going to argue what Lucas meant to do with ep. VII-IX, it could be argued that Vader wasn't going to be Anakin Skywalker. That Anakin Skywalker was alive but being defeated by Vader, he abandoned his family and lived a life of a drunk, instead of a hero, and his son/family would redeem him by believing in him, and Anakin would get his act together and finally defeat Vader. I've seen this in Westerns. And GL is very good of using themes from movies. But I think ep. IV-IX were more like episodes of Flash Gorden...a lot of adventures until the resolution in maybe ep. IX. It was just too expensive for Lucas to do that.

But anyway, since twins are important in mythology (say Siegmund and Sieling; Apollo and Artemis;Romulus and Remus) Lucas no doubt wanted twins in the movie, and Luke and Leia would more like Siegmund and Sieling, who didn't know they were twins but felt and infinity for each other. One thing, is that in ANH (though not from the movie itself, but from maybe articles, or the Tops cards or maybe the novelization it self) Leia was portrayed as the foster daughter of Bail Organa. She, like Luke, had not parents. So I'm sure it was so that Leia would latter be revealed as Luke's sister.

 

Well, if Leia was suposed to be Luke's sister in ESB, Yoda must have been more upset when he shared that vision with Luke about his friend captured by Vader.
Although, I think it was a nice way to finish Luke-Leia-Han love triangle, because she didn't have to choose between them.