When Luke force chokes the Gamorrean Guards...

...while entering Jabba's palace in ROTJ, isn't he walking a fairly thin rope towards the Dark Side?

Thoughts?

 

Yep. I think the real danger in ROTJ is that Luke will turn to the dark side. Lucas and the writers had him use dark side abilities to make the audience think that he would. But, some idiots don't think he is force-choking them. Only force-pushing, yet the problem is Lucas had not invented force-pushing until TPM.

 

i don't know - that one guard is clearly staggering backward while clutching at his own neck...

 

Yeah, I know. He force-choked them.

 

I think it's just that Luke doesn't have the time to deal with the guards. and yes, impatience is still of the Dark Side.

 

The Grip is a power used only by adepts at the Dark Side of the Force.

 

Is force choking which is not done with the intent to kill, terrorize, or seriously injure really any more dark than a force push? They're both just ways to briefly incapacitate someone without doing serious harm. In fact, a violent force push against wall would probably be more harmful than just cutting off their oxygen for a few seconds. There's a clear difference between Vader using a force choke to murder or intimidate, and Luke using it to get past guards without having to hurt or kill them. The difference between the dark side and the light isn't just what you do, it's how and why you do it.

P.S.
While I don't believe that it was a force push that Luke did, saying that Lucas hadn't invented the force push yet is silly. We'd see Jedi use telekinesis since The Empire Strikes Back. What do you think a force push is? That's like saying Lucas "invented" jedi being able to move rocks in ESB, but didn't reveal that Luke could levitate 3PO until RotJ. It's the same power used differently.

 

Force powers are amoral. The intent of the user determines how lightside or darkside they are. I used this example in another thread: If Luke uses force lightning to cook a pizza, is he an adept of the dark side? I say no. He didn't kill the guards. Vader killed Ozzel, Needa, and who knows how many others. He would have killed Motti also if Tarkin hadn't called him off. Vader is an adept of the dark side because he uses his powers, whatever they may be, to kill and maim. Luke clearly doesn't kill or maim anyone with his use of the force and is not a darksider.

 

It's official name is "The Grip" everyone!

 

Hey, I'm saying what Sinister said, and I believe it. Lucas did not invent the USE of force-pushing with the intention to use it until TPM came around.

 

^"Force powers are amoral. The intent of the user determines how lightside or darkside they are."

Agreed, the question is how the power is used, and the state of mind one is in when they use in. Even force lighting could have it's lightside uses. If I use the force to harness raw energy to power a machine or to overload the circuts of a droid that's one thing, but if I use it on a sentient that's another. The only reason to use force lightning on something living is to kill with great pain.
Luke chocking the gaurds is indeed a warning sign of the darkside. He could have used the force to calm their minds until they were calm enough to let him through willingly, but he didn't, he chose the quick and direct route.

 

i can't agree with the idea of there being any good uses for the force choke. luke could have given the guards the same "i must be allowed to speak" version of the "these aren't the droids you're looking for" routine that he gives bib, but instead he just chokes them. that scene has never sat easy with me, and it's becuase i can't decide if lucas did it to show that luke could still turn to the dark side, or because he was just being lazy.

 

But, some idiots don't think he is force-choking them. Only force-pushing, yet the problem is Lucas had not invented force-pushing until TPM.


The non believers usually say he is mind tricking the guards to make them believe there being choked.

 

You're not going to turn to the Dark Side by simply choking a guard to keep him occupied. He's not going to turn to temptation over somethng like that. That's bull-honkey.

 

"Hey, I'm saying what Sinister said, and I believe it. Lucas did not invent the USE of force-pushing with the intention to use it until TPM came around. "

My point is that he didn't have to "invent" the force push at all. It's just telekinesis used on a person/droid.

 

I think a few people are taking the choking of the Gamorrean Guards a little to far. Luke was not knowingly using a Dark Side of the Force. If he did that he would have cut their hand(s) off. Luke wanted as little altercations as possible if his plan were to work. Plus he did not want the palace to know that he had arrived.

This is why he did not go in with all guns blazing. He used the mind trick on Bib Fortuna because Bib was more interested in being a loyal servant to Jabba. Only Jabba knew that Luke was using the patented "Jedi Mind Trick."

I have reason to believe that in the time between ESB ends and RotJ begins, Luke learns how to do a few things that are not standard Jedi practice. One such thing that he learned to do was build a lightsaber. He learned that by going to Obi-Wans old house on Tatooine and getting the plans from there.

I am sure that there were some written documents that Obi-Wan had that could explain to a new pupil how the Force worked and how to use other "civil" methods as an alternative to killing an enemy.

Even though some may think it is unorthodox it may have been a way that some Jedi used to sedate an enemy just long enough to get out of harms way. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

The force choke is not exclusively a dark force power.

 

" I have reason to believe that in the time between ESB ends and RotJ begins, Luke learns how to do a few things that are not standard Jedi practice. One such thing that he learned to do was build a lightsaber. He learned that by going to Obi-Wans old house on Tatooine and getting the plans from there. "

Off topic, but since when is building a lightsaber not a standard jedi practice? Each jedi is supposed to construct his/her own lightsaber.

 

If Luke choked the Gamorrean Guards in anger, then his trip toward the Dark Side would have begun a little early.

 

referring to an earlier post in this subject... doesn't luke use the force push to knock vader on his ass in the final battle on the death star II?

 

That wasn't a force push so much as it was a side-kick in the chest

 

It certainly looks like a Force choke. But what if Luke was just putting them to sleep? It's not the type of pressure applied like Vader's lethal Force choke, which made Imperial officers drop to their knees. This type of Force choke seems to be a little more mild.

 

it seems to me that there are countless points in all five released movies when jedi could easily get what they want or get out of a perilous situation by using a force choke (kenobi?s interrogation of jango fett, kenobi and the stormtroopers on the death star when he gets the tractor beam out of commission, and luke during the speeder bike chase, just to name a few), but didn't because it's an inappropriate use of the force.

 

No one wants to take any notice of my posts? Well alright then! Hm!

 

I think Lucas wanted the audience to experience that Luke could indeed go to the dark side..

1) the cave
2)the force choke of the guards
and
3) his black outfit.