main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT When was it too late to save Anakin?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Dark Ferus, Sep 20, 2016.

  1. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    He would have reacted terribly no matter how Shmi died (Padme also) because he simply could not let go. That is what led him down the dark path in the first place.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  2. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    Anakin could have turned back at any time. No one made him make poor decisions. No one held a lightsaber to his head and forced his hand. His own greed let to his own decisions, and even when he knew what he was doing was wrong, he did it anyway. Anakin's turn was solely on him and on his own actions.
     
  3. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    To be fair, it's highly possible that as far as Anakin knows, death is an extremely painful, terrifying moment. How often had he, during his years as a Jedi, seen people die horrifically? A lot, probably. It probably didn't even occur to him that people CAN die peacefully with no pain or terror. If his dreams were about Obi-Wan being tortured to death, he would've reacted just as strongly. He associates death with pain and fear, so of course he's not going to take it easy when he's having nightmares of Padme dying in pain and fear.
     
  4. Anakin 99

    Anakin 99 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2016
    his training is a big reason behind him turning ​
    the jedi trained Anakin completely wrong​
    Anakin should not be trained the same way as a normal padawan Not because He is the chosen one but because of his existing attachments training him the same way as a normal padawan Without attachments was a big mistake​
     
  5. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    i disagree. i think him and padme are a huge part as to why he fell but i think he could've been stopped from falling. especially at such a young age when he hadn't even begun his training. padme wasn't the only reason why he fell to the dark-side.

    i think it was too late after chopping off mace windu's hand. sure, you had the beginning of the film when he decapitates dooku and embraces the dark-side but he was still confused as to why and if he should've did what he did. he could've still been saved at that point from falling, whether it being qui-gon contacting him via the force, whether it be yoda or mace windu or some really powerful jedi intervening and taking control of his training, whether it be obi-wan being a better jedi master for him & stepping up to stop him from completely going to the dark-side.

    anakin says "i shouldn't have done that, it's not the jedi way" after chopping off dooku's head - so it's clear to me at that point he was teetering on the edge. sure, he had just done something extremely sith-like but he realized it and knew what he did was wrong, so at that point he could've still been stopped..

    but when he chopped off windu's hand , that was it. at that point anakin really didn't feel like he did the right thing as his mind was still boggled as he knelt to darth sidious BUT whether he was completely on board with becoming a sith or not, at that point when he assists in killing windu, whether he likes it or not -- it was too late & he was going to become a sith.
     
  6. Anakin 99

    Anakin 99 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2016
    (You are on the council, but we do not grant you the rank of master ) I think this was the point of no return
    This is just a theory, but if he was granted the rank of master he will not needed Palpatine because he will be able to get Access to lot of old knowledge of the dark and light- side of the Force
     
    crapiola likes this.
  7. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    Anakin's visions of Padme's death were all a result of his poor choices. If Anakin follows his teachings, and stays the course, it changes the future path and Padme doesn't die giving childbirth. So as I said before, his own greed and his own egotistic opinion of himself is what caused him to turn, and caused the fall of the Jedi, and ultimately to the death of Padme, at his own hands nonetheless. Anakin's own selfishness got in the way of him realizing that Padme didn't need to be "saved".
     
    theraphos likes this.
  8. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Ehh I don't agree.
    Between TPM and AotC there was no war. Sure he probably had been in fights and the like but that he saw horrible death 24/7 is I think a stretch.
    That he couldn't imagine people dying of old age or in peace. Most 15 years olds know that.
    I would think he saw more death and suffering on Tatooine than he did as a Jedi.
    And Anakin in TPM seemed very well adjusted. And he raced pods with joy despite the quite high death count those races had.

    If he had dreams about Obi-Wan, I doubt they would bother him as much because he missed and worried about his mother. And his feelings were stronger for her than for him. He was around Obi-Wan a lot and knew that Obi-Wan could take care of himself.

    The dreams combined with ten years of worry and fear was eventually too much for Anakin.

    @Emperor Ferus
    I don't agree. When he left his mother, he was in a sensitive age and missed her a lot.
    And he was basically told to forget her. But that didn't work and instead he tried to bury his feelings.
    His mother was in a sort of limbo for him, he could not move on.

    Ex, take a couple that looses a child due to illness or accident vs a couple that has a child kidnapped.
    Both are quite terrible but the couple that lost their child know that he/she is dead, they can mourn and then move on.
    The other couple could cling to the hope that their child might be returned to them. Thus they might not move on, they are stuck, they can't let go.

    For ten years Anakin has had an unfulfilled promise gnawing in his mind, he worried about his mother, was she well, was she still a slave, what happened to her.
    He was left in limbo, he could not move on.
    Had he know that she was well, written or talked to her, then I think he could have moved on and been able to let go.
    But since he never learned to do this with Shmi, he couldn't do it with Padme either.

    But he did finally learn, from Luke, in RotJ.
    Here he could let go, of his hate and his own life. He was willing and able to lay down his life to save another. He would loose Luke and his own life but he was ok with that. He had finally learned to simply be.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
  9. theraphos

    theraphos Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 20, 2016
    Even if one accepts the ROTS novelization's idea that Anakin thought there was some secret Master-only knowledge that would give him ultimate control over death, rather than throwing a tantrum because he was an arrogant entitled manchild who was in no way fit to be called a Jedi Master, Anakin's still a complete fool for actually believing the Jedi Order would be keeping cheat sheets on learning necromancy. Rejecting death via desperate unnatural means is solely the domain of the dark side, because darksiders cling to the Self rather than peacefully accepting the will of the Force when it's time. It goes completely against everything the Jedi believe in. That magical knowledge he wanted doesn't exist. Even Sidious, the actual Sith Lord who would have it, doesn't have it (but he totally will later, no really).

    It's just another instance of Anakin willfully ignoring/rejecting lessons he's been taught for most of his life because he doesn't like it, and instead throwing himself after any completely inadvisable and barely-believable course of action he's convinced himself will get him what he wants to hear instead.

    It's like a little kid who asks one parent if he can have extra candy, gets told no because it'll make him sick, and sneaks behind their back to try and ask the other parent the same thing in hopes of getting a different answer. Because gosh darn it, that's not what he wanted to hear, and that's all he cares about. (Except in this case the other parent is Palpatine, who always says "why yes, Anakin, you SHOULD have extra candy, because you deserve all the candy you want just because you want it, also kill all of your friends.")
     
  10. bizzbizz

    bizzbizz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2015
    anakin grew up a slave which would of skewed his look at the republic he then becomes a jedi and sees that this all powerful order allows slavery to continue and keeps his mother in chains.his two great mentors and friends betray him in his eyes and so does the person who he loves most by the end of the movie. his wife is dead his best friend has left him for dead he is a broken man and does not see the republic as worth saving. and technically he is right about that fact.

    the jedi made there own worst nightmare come true with anakin if they respected his opinion/powers like any other jedi of his skill he never turns to the dark side. mace windu had just as much to do with it as sidious
     
    Tonyg and Nanaki like this.
  11. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    It wasn't that the Jedi trained Anakin wrong, it's the fact that PalpSidious completely undermined their teaching methods behind their backs by giving Anakin false praises and fake compliments. He would even plant seeds of doubt within Anakin as a way to turn him against the Jedi.
     
  12. WattoIsAJedi

    WattoIsAJedi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Probably should have never trained him to become a jedi in the first place
     
  13. Nanaki

    Nanaki Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2016
    I think the Jedi were stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to whether or not Anakin should have been trained. Obviously, they knew he was vulnerable to the lure of the Dark Side. However, the Sith had exposed themselves to the Jedi right around the same time. I think the Jedi did a 180 on the issue of his training out in order to keep the alleged prophesied Chosen One away from the Sith, not realizing that the Sith Master was right under their noses (in addition to being a bad influence on Anakin), and had their initial decision stood, I think feelings of rejection would have lured him to the Dark Side anyway, and he likely would have turned much earlier than he did in regular continuity (and this time, redemption would be highly doubtful). So basically, I think the Jedi were damned if they did train him, and damned if they didn't.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk
     
    crapiola, Deliveranze and HevyDevy like this.
  14. black_saber

    black_saber Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2002
    I believe Palpatine was playing with Anakins Emotions ever since after the Naboo won its victory against The Trade federation. For example, Anakin did not have feelings for Padme in the beginning because he told the decoy queen that he was on his way the the jedi temple and may never see her again and wish her good luck and good bye. Anakin I believe started growing unnatural love and attachments to padme afterword's because Palpatine played with Anakins feelings to seduce him to the Darkside. I just wish lucas would show us the beginning transitions in the Phantom Menace.

    I believe that Anakin grew up trying to compete against Obi Wan because Palpatine said you are gifted and so powerful that the Jedi are whats holding you back. You will be strong and invincible.

    Its was not just Revenge of the Sith that made Anakin turn to the darkside, it was really Palpatine who had too much Darkside influences over Anakin in both his training and as chanceller for 13 years. Anakin started out on the right path until Palpatine messed with Anakin like he and as Darth Vader where doing to Luke in Return of the Jedi.

    I also wanted to add that in Attack of the clones when Padme agreed that a Secret love would be a lie Anakin originally agreed not to fall in love.
     
  15. asim1999

    asim1999 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Well he started turning in Episode 2 when he killed all the tusken raiders and his immature attitude was expressed even more after that point
     
    ThinPaperWings likes this.
  16. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    It was never too late to save Anakin which Luke proved in ROTJ.
     
  17. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Idunno man, once he killed Mace Windu there was no going back unless he wanted to spend the rest of his days locked in a cell or banished by the Jedi. At the end of the day Anakin wanted power, and in his eyes the only pathway to that power was Palpatine.
     
  18. Ord Sorrell

    Ord Sorrell Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2016
    I believe the true beginning of his descent came when he slaughtered the sand people on tatooine to save his mother who died in his arms anyway. The absolute last point in time he could have been "saved" from this dark fall was probably in ROTS just before he was assigned to palpatine.
     
  19. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    As early as Episode II Anakin could tangibly feel himself growing more and more powerful, on track to becoming more powerful than any Jedi in history before him. Maybe it wasn't strictly rational, but as he held his dying mother in his arms and as the boundless rage and grief welled inside him, he could feel himself tottering on the threshold to a world of of unimaginable power. As he explicated in the garage with Padme, he had an intuition that such a power existed and was within reach. He also had an intuition that the Jedi feared his power and were keeping knowledge from him. Combine this with wishful thinking and a little goading from Palpatine, and it would be easy for him to draw the conclusions that he did.

    Anakin isn't supposed to be all-knowing or all-wise. He's supposed to be a scared, frustrated, desperate young man. He's not relying entirely on the word of Palpatine to believe that such a power exists. He already came to that conclusion on his own, based on his own experiences and intuitions, tinged with fear and longing. Palpatine is simply confirming what he already suspected.

    And why is the idea so far-fetched? After all, the Jedi ultimately did learn of a way to transcend death. Not in the way that Anakin would have wanted, of course, but Anakin was still closer to the truth than you're admitting.
     
    Talos of Atmora and Tonyg like this.
  20. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Or he could have killed sidious and said that he killed mace. That would never work though. So at that point, he had definitely crossed the line.
     
  21. Nanaki

    Nanaki Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2016
    There's also the Darth Vader suit, which was designed to make it easier for Palpatine to punish him if he ever stepped out of line...namely, being made vulnerable to Palpatine's Sith Lightning that would short out his Life Support system at full strength. If Anakin returned to the Light at any point after the mask closed on him, it could cost him his life, which is exactly what happened in ROTJ.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk
     
  22. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    I think the moment he attacked Mace Windu in ROTJ was the point of no return. While he had been taking steps before, that's where he actively chooses to become a Sith and betray his calling.
     
  23. Anakin.Skywalker

    Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2016
    I think it was too late to save Anakin when Qui-Gon died, but not because Anakin was lost then. I don't think anyone else could have handled him. Qui-Gon was unconventional enough to "fit" Anakin. Obi-wan was a good Master, and certainly did the best he could, but he wasn't equipped to be Anakin's master.

    As far as when Anakin himself was doomed....I think he was doomed when he met Padme in AOTC. He was too attached.
     
  24. PHIERY

    PHIERY Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    He never needed to be saved in the first place. He was the Chosen One, his journey was the will of the force.
     
    QueenSabe7 likes this.
  25. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Personally, I think it was too late after Anakin butchered the Tusken Raiders in AOTC. Alternatively, I'd say it was too late after he executed Operation Knightfall and killed children. I'm not quite sure.