When was Obi-Wan Reckless?

In ESB, Yoda initally refused to train Luke telling him that he was reckless. Obi-Wan interjects saying that that he was once reckless as well. But so far in the PT we have not seen him being reckless. Quite the opposite, he obeys the JC rules regardless.

So tell me when exactly was Obi-Wan reckless?

 

"I WILL train Anakin, without the approval of the Council if I must."

You could also consider leaping out of a skyscraper to catch a droid pretty reckless.

 

I would consider his willingness to train Anakin without the JC's approval, reckless if in fact the council turned him down and he did still train him. But as the council did allow him to, where is the recklessness?

Jumping out of a window to catch a droid? No, especially since Anakin jumped out of speeder.

 

Obi was probably reckless when he was younger - BEFORE Episode I.

We don't always need to SEE everything.

 

Yea. He was reckless before TPM.

 

And his nonchalant saber twirl while walking towards Maul during the duel, before they enter the huge hall with the beams. I think a widescreen version is required to see this.


oh, yeah, and the droid thing

 

Obi was probably reckless when he was younger - BEFORE Episode I.

We don't always need to SEE everything.

Problem with this is, when we watch the movies 1-6 and Obi-Wan talks about his recklessness in ESB, we think "when was that exactly?". Same argument for Obi-Wan and Anakin's "great friendship" that was talked about in the OT but happens "off-screen" in the PT. I wish some things had been shown on-screen rather than left to the EU or whatever...

 

As some people have allready stated it was before TPM. Obi-Wan refered to when he was Yoda's student, not Qui-Gonn's. In the Phantom Menace he is allmost a complete Jedi but when he trained under Yoda he was a child.

As for the friendship of Obi-Wan and Anakin, note that Anakin's path mirrors Luke's. Luke was put to tests by Yoda in ESB and did whine a lot, like Anakin in AOTC. But in Jedi he had matured considerably and gotten more confident. I'm sure the same will happen to Anakin. I have heard rumours that Anakin and Obi-Wan will have a relationship that will do Obi's statements justice in the beginning of ROTS.

 

I totally agree...we're given a lot of promises in the OT for what Anakin and Obi-Wan were like in their heyday.

But watching the PT, you never get a payoff for the Obi-Wan being "reckless". One jump through a window to get at a droid does not make one reckless...Han Solo was much more obviously reckless than PT Obi-Wan, for example.

Anakin being a "good friend" to Obi-Wan? In fact, it seems like Anakin was only taken on board and tolerated by Obi-Wan because of his promise to Qui-Gon. Anakin was ready to leave Obi-Wan to his fate on Geonosis. Padme was the one who insisted they rescue poor Ben.

Anakin being "the greatest star pilot in the galaxy"? Accidentally blowing up the Trade Federation ship and being a great driver of speeders and pods do not qualify one to hold the title of 'greatest star pilot in the galaxy' IMO.

Anakin being a "cunning warrior"? He gets jacked up by Count Dooku in about 3 seconds and gets his lightsaber cut in half in the droid factory...hardly a 'cunning warrior'. Okay, so he did manage to slaughter a bunch of Tuskens, kill a couple of poisonous bugs, and use some kind of Force hoodoo to calm down a rampaging beast...but "cunning"? Can any of that really be considered "cunning"?

I would have liked a lot more character development for Anakin and Obi-Wan. As it is, they SOUND a lot cooler in the OT than they actually ARE in the PT.

 

4LOM,

Thanks, you crystalized a lot of what I've been thinking about when I posted the orginal message.

 

Obi Wan was trained by Yoda when he was a youngling. Yoda usually trains all Jedi children before they mature into padawan learners for someone else to take over. Yoda had him before Qui Gon did.

 

We obviously need a prequel to the prequel trilogy

 

We have missed almost 10 years which ironically enough, seems to contain some of the most important parts of the story.

 

Star Wars is not about Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

<I>Anakin being "the greatest star pilot in the galaxy"? Accidentally blowing up the Trade Federation ship and being a great driver of speeders and pods do not qualify one to hold the title of 'greatest star pilot in the galaxy' IMO.

Anakin being a "cunning warrior"? He gets jacked up by Count Dooku in about 3 seconds and gets his lightsaber cut in half in the droid factory...hardly a 'cunning warrior'. Okay, so he did manage to slaughter a bunch of Tuskens, kill a couple of poisonous bugs, and use some kind of Force hoodoo to calm down a rampaging beast...but "cunning"? Can any of that really be considered "cunning"?</I>

Uh, one more movie to go. Hellooooooooooo

As for the original question, I agree with what others have said. Star Wars is the story of the Skywalker family, not Obi-Wan Kenobi. If Lucas decides to do Star Wars until he's 90, maybe he can do Episodes -2, -1, and 0 after he does 7, 8, and 9.

 

Remember, that "greatest star-pilot in the galaxy" thing IS going to be settled in Episode III. And anyhow if a ten-year-old today hopped in a jet right now, flew it, and blew up an enemy battle ship, even if it is accidental, you'd still have to say the kid's got some skills. As for cunning war, remember the "shoot above the fuel cells" sequence and the fact that, yes, Dooku did beat but he clearly was a bit tired after the battle(look at his face). The Dooku-Anakin duel was short but INTENSE, and apparently Dooku had to really focus in order to beat Anakin, instead of just toying with him like he did with Obi.
As to Obi's recklessness, I agree with those who say it was before TPM. Obi was referring to his tutelage as a Youngling under Yoda, not as a Padawan under Qui-gon. I don't think this really hurts the statement in Empire Strikes back much. At first glance, yeah, but if you think about it for just a bit you can see what he means, me thinks. I do agree that they should have shown more of the Obi-Anakin friendship in AOTC. Hopefully they'll do the relationship better in Episode III(fingers crossed).

 

Nooooooo That's a lie... that's impossible. (this in reponse to bellybutton's post)

 

Guys, the whole point of the pod race was to show Anakin's piloting skills, I can't remember exact quotes but aren't we lead to believe he is the only human (eapecially at his age) to win such a race.

And as for the cunning warrior comment from Obi-Wan, he was trying to talk to a son about his father, who he never knew and get him interested in becoming a Jedi, many, MANY people (in real life)would exagerate and praise just for the sake of the son (Luke). Once Luke had matured enough in RotJ Obi-Wan told him exactly what he though of Anakin: "more machine that man....twisted and evil"

Lucas wouldn't be able to make enough episodes to explain everything to everyone's liking. I always looked at Star Wars as being brought to a different world and getting dumped right in the middle of what's going on, I don't need to see EVERYTHING.

 

In AOTC Anakin says that Obi-Wan has been a great influence on him. You can see that Anakin is struggling because he wants to be like Obi-Wan, but at the same time, trying to be himself.

 

Star Wars is not about Obi-Wan Kenobi

What?! Where have you been

I think that mainly Obi-Wan is referring to his younger days when he was under Yoda's training. After all, he's trying to relate himself to Luke, and at this stage, Luke has little training.

Also, I think we see remnants of it in Obi-Wan's cockiness and stubbornness without thinking that comes through a few times in the PT, especially in his TPM fighting style.

-sj lvoes kevin sapcey

 

His recklessness is established in little bits -- most notably his decision to train Anakin, his behavior in his solo fight against Maul, his jumping out the window at the assassin droid. Considering how throwaway a line this was in the OT, I think it's been given more than enough service.

And his friendship with Anakin, I feel, has been established. I don't need to see them smile and hug every five minutes to know they're friends. It might not be the "buddy cop" relationship some were expecting, but it works fine for me as a teacher-student friendship.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Something familiar about this debate, feel like...

 

I think that mainly Obi-Wan is referring to his younger days when he was under Yoda's training. After all, he's trying to relate himself to Luke, and at this stage, Luke has little training.

Don't think...feel

This makes sense to me as well. Considering Yoda immediately also states that Luke is too old, which to me means Obi Wan was talking about himself before he was Qui Gon's apprentice.

 

4-lom

u nailed it.

i agree with it all