Lit When would Luke want to "Pass the torch/baton"?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Tim Battershell, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Luke was born in 19 ABY - which means that he is currently roughly 63 Standard Years old (IU) as at the end of "Apocalypse" (and interestingly, Mark Hamill will be roughly 63 when Episode 7 releases in 2015!).

    Luke has shown, IMHO, that he considers it his duty to fight for Peace and Justice and to fight against the agents and influence of the Dark Side.

    Also IMHO, Luke's natural inclination is to be in the front line, rather than a "manager" or a "chessmaster" - a Rear-Echelon Jedi, he is not!

    So, leaving aside the (hypothetical) life extending factors of advanced Health Care and the anti-aging benefits of the Force; when do you think that he would be ready/willing to step down and "Pass the baton" to the next generation of Jedi?

    Personally, I think that he would be thinking of handing over the reins sometime in the next five to ten years.
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 18, 2012
  2. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Honestly, if they hadn't turned every recent story into Galactic War of the Week, I'm sure Luke would have happily taken a step back looong ago.
  3. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Indeed, we actually see him doing it during the Black Fleet Crisis series, effectively handing control of the Jedi Order to Streen, and retiring to Vader's castle (after rebuilding it) to meditate.

    That didn't last very long.
  4. Tinwe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012
    star 1
    Maybe he's one of those guys who want to retire, but postpone it time and again because they realize they have no idea what they'll do with their life afterward.
  5. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Indeed, every time it could seem natural he'd step back, the situation changes so he can't. Reason? The audience won't let go. I must be honest and say I can't see him do it at all - unless they send him away, injure him handicapped - or kill him. It doesn't become easier since no one really knows what to do with retired Jedi. Put him to an old people's home where he and Han can sit by a fire and swap stories about the old days? I don't thnk so. I mean, we saw Dooku and Yoda jump around with lightsabers well behind their prime too and Luke's not one to be brownbeaten. As you say, Tim, he's very much a front line guy, always has been

    But if 'pass the baton' means let others get place on the pages too, I guess we now post-FOTJ have the perfect opportunity. I could see Luke get some novels but most of them going to other Jedi. IMO though, it's not as much a question for Luke to 'pass the baton' as for others to 'take the scene'. Time will show if they can manage that. So, buy the books, all you who think Luke's too old. ;)
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Putting someone else in charge of the Order, a "rear echelon type" and going back to frontline duty as "just another Jedi" might be more his style.
  7. Hope Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 1999
    star 4
    I'm thinking Luke will be forced to pass the baton/torch once Lucas and co. get a hold of him in the new sequel trilogy. I'm guessing that the ST will take place several decades after RotJ with Luke playing more of a supporting role (similar to the roles played by Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OT) to a new generation of heroes. Whatever EU comes out of the new ST will most likely focus on other characters besides Luke, Han and Leia. It will be nice to have a new generation of heroes to cheer for.
  8. Manisphere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2007
    star 5
    As everything Luke, Han and Leia ever did in the EU ceases to exist.
  9. Hope Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 1999
    star 4
    Would it really be a huge loss to see some of the eu being blasted into oblivion? Especially the last ten or so years of the EU? Han and Leia buried two of their three kids, Luke's wife was killed by his nephew and his only son was nearly lost to the dark side etc. There's a lot of stuff in the EU I would love to get rid of. Of course this probably means saying bye to things I actually like but it would almost be worth it to be rid of the crap (Denningverse I'm looking at you). Of course they could split the Star Wars universe into two completely separate universes.
  10. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    I think Luke DID pass the torch and baton in Jedi Academy Trilogy. Passing the torch means that you allow OTHER people to be heroes and they *DID* have other heroes.

    Luke still had his own adventures, though.
    ChildOfWinds, Jedi Ben and kataja like this.
  11. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    This is my biggest issue with a lot of the post-NJO EU. In order to keep the Big Three in the spotlight, they were given really crappy parenting experiences. What would have been wrong with their raising children with somewhat better luck, and then passing the torch to the next generation 20 GFFA years ago?
  12. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Except that Luke would only have been 40 Standard. Who really wants to retire at 40, when he's got so many years of Jedi-ing ahead of him? Quite apart from the fact that there was no Jedi council then; and when he did get one, the Masters spent more time having rows with each other over facets of the current issue than they did putting the issue to rights!
  13. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    I like the idea that he just operates as a rank and file jedi without being a formal leader aside from a respected figurehead role. But he's been the head honcho by default for so long that it's almost become a cult of personality situation, especially now that the hairbrained idea of Ben inheriting the title has been formally introduced.

    Personally, I don't think that he's that great in a leadership role with a group any bigger than a squad or something.
    Last edited by Landostrip, Nov 18, 2012
  14. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    He needs cooler and wiser heads (read Jedi) on the Council, that's for sure!
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    He wouldn't have to retire. I can certainly speak to not wanting to retire at 40. :p I was speaking more to his moving into a mentor role and the stories focusing on the younger Jedi, especially since the main characters of the films are all in their 20s. The middle-aged and older characters, while important, are in mentoring or supporting roles.
  16. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    Not only is Luke's natural inclination to fight against the forces of evil directly, the progression of events has also continued to justify his choices to do so (or been allowed to by a series of poor writing decisions, depending on your viewpoint). Certainly we can observe this choice in certain paths Luke as taken, most significantly allowing the Solusars to more or less monopolize the training of all new Jedi, something Yoda would never have countenanced.

    I suspect what would cause Luke to step back from putting his own flesh forward first when it comes to facing evil would be the realization of just how important his presence and reputation, and his active utilization of the same, is to the cohesive functioning of the Jedi Order. We saw this in FotJ - Luke, who was able to successfully negotiate with Daala, left, and everything immediately fell apart, to the point that the Order's council fought amongst itself physically and the Jedi unilatterally launched a coup agaisnt the government based solely on how they were being treated (there were plenty of legitimate reasons why Daala deserved to be kicked out of office, the Jedi weren't acting on them, they went after her for themselves).

    Luke is founder of the NJO, he is the only figure who is capable of uniting the fractitious group of people who have risen to lead this order, because he is the only one they all respect. At other points in history the leadership of the Jedi share much more in common and this is a far lesser problem, but until the NJO matures, it can't handle itself without Luke. Assuming he figures this out, hopefully he would make proactive leadership and management of the order a much more significant focus of his time.
  17. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Unfortunately, that really doesn't appear to be his nature. He seems to be much more comfortable being in the front-rank getting his hands dirty than he is with Management, PR or even Mentoring. Perhaps thet's because he was really trained to be a human weapon to take down Vader and Palpatine.
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 18, 2012
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    He monopolized the training of all new Jedi himself. I think Dark Rendezvous suggests that Yoda trained all the "younglings"- didn't the AoTC Visual Guide also say something along those lines?
  19. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    I'm not feeling Luke's teaching skills myself frankly, but that's probably being my personally experience of the best teachers being the ones who are willing to tear into you, the crotchetyer the better.

    He could probably do better as the Order's kindergarden teacher, as Yoda was. But I think he would be at his best just tooling around the Outer Rim doing his own thing, righting wrongs an helping out any Jedi he can find.

    He's supposed to be the ideal Jedi? Don't make him leader where he has to make the borad-scope pragmatic decisions. Have him out there being the ideal jedi, reminding the galaxy of what to expect from jedi.
    Last edited by Landostrip, Nov 18, 2012
  20. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    This is why I want to see a scene with Kyle Katarn in full badass drill instructor mode doing his Battlemaster training duties. :p
    Tim Battershell likes this.
  21. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    Anybody who spends a year near Kyle Katarn and survives is gonna be a good jedi.

    Also, Mara Jade would've made a damn good one too. A woman who looks like that, explaining why you fail? Hormonal teenager kryptonite.
    Last edited by Landostrip, Nov 18, 2012
  22. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    While this is a popular notion of Zahn's, it's not one that I think really captures Luke in the OT. He was trained only to a limited degree, so he'd have some defence against Vader. Given what we see of both Vader and Sidious in the PT, Yoda must have thought at times Luke had no chance, but hey a long shot beats no shot. If Luke was just a weapon aimed at Vader and Sidious, then he'd have killed Vader and kept his lightsaber to defend against the lightning. He doesn't.

    There are very few people who can pull off that kind of teaching and still make it come across as constructive, I know the kind of teachers you have in mind, but they are very rare - far more common is a teacher who tries to do that, does it badly and comes across as a harsh bastard. There hasn't been much focus on Luke teaching but BP has a good section on it, where Luke has a Chandra-fan student.
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I thought it was much more Stackpole suggesting that in I, Jedi, than Zahn.

    And remember Yoda's words:

    "Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor."

    As well as Ben's warning to Luke:

    Luke: "I can't kill my own father."
    Ben: "Then the Emperor has already won."
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 18, 2012
  24. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Which is why I don't see Luke as being that weapon, as he wouldn't have gone contrary to what Ben told him when he spares Vader.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Simple answer- they were attempting to shape him that way- but due to him being an adult, and having his own views, they couldn't shape him as much as they'd intended.
    lukemaraben and Tim Battershell like this.