Saga When Yoda spoke of another...

Was he referring to Anakin/Vader? If you just watch the OT, it seems like he was talking about Leia, but with the PT, it makes it a lot less clear. IMO, I think he was talking about Anakin. For starters, Obi-Wan says "that boy is our last hope" before Yoda's famous line, but we all know Obi-Wan knew about Leia. And then there is the prophecy of the Chosen One. Yoda may have had a sliver of faith that it still would come true, even though he warned look that going down the dark path would dominate his destiny.

Heck even ROTJ makes this line seemingly refer to Anakin, as he is the one who destroys the Sith, while Leia doesn't really have much to do with that plotline. What do y'all think? What do you interpret this lines' meaning?

 

Oooh, good question I always thought it referred to Leia although it could refer to Anakin. I always figured Yoda meant that if Luke fell, Leia would be the only hope. Because there was totally no way of knowing until the literal end of ROTJ, that Vader would "become" Anakin again.

 

In universe answer: Leia. Both Yoda and Obi-Wan believed Anakin irredeemable

Irl answer: the potential protagonist of a sequel trilogy if they'd decided to go with the "Luke kills his father and turns to the dark side to replace him" ending

 

It was Leia. In From a Certain Point of View Yoda believes Leia is the one who would make a good Jedi and Luke is a terrible candidate, while Obi-Wan believes the reverse.

 

I like that explanation! A simple way to have the dialogue make perfect sense.
It even makes it a bit funny

 

This was answered in RotJ:

Luke: "Yoda spoke of another".
Ben: "The other he spoke of is your twin sister".

Since Ben & Yoda seem quite close I think we should take him as a reliable source on what Yoda meant. If Yoda was referring to Anakin in TESB then you'd have a weird situation where he's referring to "another" then & saying it again in RotJ where he means someone else. I don't think so.

 

Originally, in early drafts of of the ROTJ script, the idea was that it referred to Anakin.

 

How do earlier drafts effect the final movie?

 

Darth Downunder wrote

How do earlier drafts effect the final movie?

They do not, but in terms of researching original intentions it's an interesting subject.

And I'd say that by the time of ESB the "other" was neither Vader or Leia (I don't think Lucas would have allowed Leia to kiss her brother in the Hoth medical center, had he already decided on Leia to be that "other"), but Luke's enigmatic sister Nelleth referred to in the first ESB draft.

The_Phantom_Calamari wrote

Originally, in early drafts of of the ROTJ script, the idea was that it referred to Anakin.

I'm afraid that draft you have in mind (explicitly claiming Vader to be the "other", I have a copy of it) is bogus. It became available some time after ROJ and pretended to be a version from 1981 (IIRC), but since then the genuine 1981 draft is available but so completely different from that bogus script (which is way too close to the final one to be true), I'm 100% certain it's a fake.
And in the original June 1981 draft of Revenge of the Jedi it is still Yoda insisting that Luke has to kill Vader, so obviously Vader was neither considered to be the "other" by that time nor in hindsight.

Of course, ultimately in ROJ it turns out that Annakin is - technically - the last hope. Again, the ROJ dialogue appears to be deliberately ambivalent, i.e. Yoda just insists that Luke has to "confront" Vader while Kenobi insists that killing Vader is the inevitable outcome.

It could be that Yoda (finally) considered Annakin to be the last hope, but then Kenobi obviously disagreed, insisting (and lying...) that Yoda only spoke of Luke's twin sister Leia.

But I don't think Kenobi was lying, rather Yoda was applying reverse psychology. I.e. while Yoda might have considered the possibility that Luke could turn Vader, he didn't express it and rather came up with Leia as the candidate, but even for Luke it must have been obvious that she couldn't take on both Vader and the Emperor, and thus he realized that everything depended entirely on his actions.

 

It's Leia. Although when Luke questions Obi-Wan about another, he talking about Yoda's line that "there is another Skywalker", not the "there is another (hope)" from TESB.

In the OT, there's nothing preventing one from believing that Yoda is referring to Anakin in TESB. But in ROTS, Yoda is pretty explicit about considering Anakin to be gone, consumed by Darth Vader.

 

Alexrd wrote

In the OT, there's nothing preventing one from believing that Yoda is referring to Anakin in TESB.

Of course everyone is free to believe what he or she wants, but the genuine ROJ draft from June 1981 makes it clear that Vader was most assuredly not the other "hope" by that time (and Leia had become Luke's sister):

YODA

You cannot help Obi-Wan! You cannot face your

father! You cannot resist the Dark Side! The

Emperor has already won.

LUKE

I’m sorry, I…

YODA

Sorry will not save you…or Obi-Wan…or your father

destroy.

LUKE

I have no will to destroy my father…there must be

some good in him, I can feel it.

YODA

Destroy you he will, as he destroyed himself…this

you must face…

LUKE

I am not strong enough, I will fail.

YODA

If that is the way you feel…then I must turn to

another for help.

LUKE

Another? Who?

YODA

The Force runs strong in the Skywalker line. If

you will not destroy your father, there is only

one other left who can…your sister.

LUKE

Sister!!! I don’t have a sister.

YODA

Strong with the Force is she; but untrained.

LUKE

My sister?

YODA

Taken to Alderaan by your mother, was she. Safer

it was to keep you apart.

LUKE

Leia?!?

YODA

Your twin sister… If you fail to destroy your

father, our only hope is she.


So, if Vader had ever been a candidate during the making of ESB (which I doubt), he definitely wasn't any more a year after the ESB premiere.

 

Like I said, I know very well it's Leia. The context and Lucas himself confirmed it. What I'm saying is that by the dialogue in the final movie alone, there is nothing that directly contradicts it.

 

Alexrd wrote

Like I said, I know very well it's Leia.

Is that really what you believed in 1980 after watching the film? I was there when it happened, but never once did I read any article in magazines like Fantastic Films, fan magazines or others even suggest Leia to be the "other" (which is hardly surprising, considering how she kissed her brother, no one remotely considered that idea).

As a matter of fact the newcomer Boba Fett was considered a candidate, considering that he went back to sent some warning shots in Luke's direction in Cloud City. Since no one was certain whether Vader had really told the truth, the theory that Boba Fett might be Luke's real father wasn't something considered to be farfetched, and most definitely not after the title Revenge of the Jedi had been revealed.

 

Keep in mind that, at no point, was the "other" specified as being related to Luke, in TESB. That, combined with Leia's sensing of Luke's call, allows for the possibility of Lucas having already concluded that Yoda referring to Leia by that point in the writing process.

Lucas may have figured that conservation of detail, means not making up a whole new character to be the "other".

Between TESB and ROTJ, Lucas may have decided to change Leia's connection to Luke, but it's possible that he made her the "other" before deciding they are siblings.

 

No, It's what I concluded after ROTJ and BTS interviews released after. The argument presented in this thread is based on the assumption that we know the events of ROTJ and the PT.

 

You're asserting that the screenplay draft excerpted in The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi is bogus?

 

Iron_lord wrote

Keep in mind that, at no point, was the "other" specified as being related to Luke, in TESB. That, combined with Leia's sensing of Luke's call, allows for the possibility of Lucas having already concluded that Yoda referring to Leia by that point in the writing process.

Thanks for the reminder. But it's inconclusive, at best ambiguous. Leia and Chewie were the only two familiar faces Luke saw in Cloud City, so it was obvious for him using Jedi telepathy techniques to ask one or the other for help. Nowhere in ESB was it established that only Force-sensitive people could 'talk' to one another.

The_Phantom_Calamari wrote

You're asserting that the screenplay draft excerpted in The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi is bogus?

No,I'm not, I was talking about a bogus script that was sold commercially, pretending to be a copy of the genuine 1981 script.

But I then Mr. Rinzler apparently missed (can you provide the page number?) the earlier part I quoted in Post # 11 from the (genuine) June 12, 1981 rough draft
(http://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/revenge-of-the-jedi-revised-rough-draft/)

LUKE
I am not strong enough, I will fail.
YODA
If that is the way you feel…then I must turn to another for help.
LUKE
Another? Who?
YODA
The Force runs strong in the Skywalker line. If you will not destroy your father, there is only one other left who can…your sister.

Later on it does feature this scene:

EMPEROR
Obi-Wan foresaw my destruction at your hands, young Skywalker, but it seems his vision was clouded…Perhaps there is still another Skywalker. Why can I not see, could the netherworld have influenced my perception? Another Skywalker…your father!
The Emperor turns around to see Lord Vader flying at him. The lightning bolts around Luke disappear as Vader hits the Emperor, knocking them both into the fiery lake of lava. The hideous screams of the Emperor are soon muted. Luke struggles to his feet and stares at the spot where his enemy and his father disappeared into the cauldron of molten rock.

So it's rather clear that the "other" Yoda referred to in ESB has become Leia by June 12,1981.

With the return (actually it's still "revenge" at this stage ) of the Jedi, Vader has become "another Skywalker", but not necessarily another "other".

 

I wasn't aware of that earlier line in the script referring to Leia. It looks to me like the intention was for the "other" Yoda was referring to to indeed be Leia, but also for the line to end up ironically referring to Anakin as well.

 

Maybe the dialogue about Luke's sister was added to the script at the last minute and the "other" was going to refer to Anakin before that? the

How I would have written ROTJ is for Yoda's "other" line from ESB to refer to an unidentified individual in Yoda's visions who, unbeknownst to Yoda, is Anakin.

 

An Other, you say, dif'rent, they wonder at, but lost, is our cause

for winning?

 

Oh ****

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-blue-yoda-society-thread

 

That thread started with an OP about "life sabers" and was allowed to go on for 241 pages.

 

In the OT Yoda and Obi Wan seem to be very clear in his view that Vader is unredeemable. And if you watch only the OT the natural assumption seems to be that "the other is Leia.

What seems weird to me is when you add in the PT to the mix.

Obi Wan clearly know about Leia and that she could be highly Force sensitive in the PT. But the writing in the OT implies that he did not know about Leia until after Luke cut his training short and flew off to Cloud City.

Obi Wan - "that boy is our last hope"
Yoda - No there is another."

Of course in the real world we know that the PT was written long after the OT and that some continuity errors will creep in from time to time. But I think that this could have been better written into the PT to make it more consistent.

Fast forward to 2017 - could the new cannon be that Yoda was sensing Rey ? I know that this is a bit of a reach but something to chew on.

 

Could be.