When you put the OT into your VCR, what percentage of the time is it the original?

For me it is 0%.

I bought the originals when they were re-released (for the last time) 7 or so years ago, and being a huge fan, watched them again and again. I usually don't go more than two weeks without watching a Star Wars film.

Anyway, since the Special Editions came out, I have only watched them. The originals will probably never be watched again by me. Why watch the originals, when I can watch the same friggin move that was filmed in 1977 in an improved way? The movie is the same, but the additions (with the exception of the Greedo scene of course) are better.

Why God why would I want to watch the Battle of Yavin on the originals, when the Special Edition's Battle of Yavin is infinitely better? The X-Wings and Tie Fighters actually have some mobility. The dialogue for the most part is unchanged, the pacing is unchanged, the music is unchanged. It's the same movie... improved.

There are a lot of people on here that seem to think Lucas would make a lot of money relasing the original un-edited versions on DVD. Let's think about this. Star Wars remember doesn't just cater for the hard core fans. It caters for everyone. It had one of the widest demographics of any movie. How many of this wide demographic, that would buy the Special Editions would also fork out extra money for a version that is the same but inferior?

I don't want to hear, Oh, but they will pay the money because they are original" The Special Editions are the originals! They were filmed in 1977. It is only some small changes, 99% of which improved the picture that were added. Of this massive market, 95% would only buy the special ediitons. There is virtually no money to be made in re-releasing an inferior version.

The important facets of any movie are the sreenplay, music, dialogue, editing etc. All these things are unchanged. It is the same movie. I just do not understand why people who have a choice would actually put the original into their VCR instead of the Special Editions. Everything you see on the screen in the Special Editions was what you see in the original anyway - it was all filmed in 1977. What is so good about seeing the "smudged forcefield" under Luke's landspeeder? It's not "good" to see this. You can avoid seeing the "smudged forcefield" yet still see the same stuff that was filmed in 1977 by putting the Special Editions into your VCR.

I reckon, if you take a survey of everyone worldwide (hard core and non-hardcore) the original versions would hardly be watched, even by those that own them.

People say the originals are what they grew up on and the Special Editions aren't. Wrong. The Special Editions are what you grew up on. They are the movie that was filmed in 1977. It is the movie we all love. It is also the movie that has some subtle changes, 99% of which improve the picture.

But hey if you don't want to see the beautiful entrance the Millenium Falcon makes to Cloud City, just because it improves the impact of Cloud City (heaven forbid it improves the scene), hey be my guess. You're in the minority.

 

Part of teh charm of the OT, lies in teh very fact that we can see the forcefield under lukes speeder, the same with all the other stuff.

It had a certain charm, that can't be altered without losing taht special charm...sure it gains a new charm....but for me...it is not the same.


I enjoy seeing the flaws of the unaltered version.





But hey thats just me





DD - No Se OT Spliff

 

Part of the charm of the OT, lies in the very fact that we can see the forcefield under lukes speeder, the same with all the other stuff.

Thats not a charm. It's a forcefield under a speeder that shouldn't be there. It was taken out without compromising anything in that scene. Why would you "willingly" watch the forcefield, when you know you can watch the improved version (which was still filmed in 1977) without it?

Lucas would make NO money if he released the original versions. People (some hard-core fan) would buy them for historical reasons, leave them in their cupboard and never watch them!

Don't listen to the vocal minority George! They are vocal, but they are the minority. Just stick them in the special featues section on disk-2 of ANH in 2006!

 

Thats not a charm. It's a forcefield under a speeder that shouldn't be there. It was taken out without compromising anything in that scene. Why would you "willingly" watch the forcefield, when you know you can watch the improved version (which was still filmed in 1977) without it.

The film was released in 1977 with all that they could muster from that period in FX. At that time (1977) there is a forcefield under Lukes speeder.
SO BE IT.

GL has said that if was to make the OT today it would look different....of course it would LOOK different, its not 1977 anymore, but 1997!

So now we have a movie from 1977 with FX from 1997. Is it the same movie now?
NO. It seems and looks teh same, but it isn't.
Two different ages are at play.

It may be more in tune with GL's vision, but if that is true, why didn't he make Greedo shoot first, in the original release. Don't tell me it was because of technical restraints. The fact is that Han IS supposed to shoot first.

The whole psycological understanding of Han solo, is completely different.

It was released in 1977 as the version that Gl was happy with.




DD -

 

The film was released in 1977 with all that they could muster from that period in FX. At that time (1977) there is a forcefield under Lukes speeder.

And it was re-released without it. So be it. So what if the technogy was limite at the time? Technology wasn't limited 20 years later. The result is a better film.

So now we have a movie from 1977 with FX from 1997. Is it the same movie now?
NO. It seems and looks the same, but it isn't. Two different ages are at play.

Everything that is important to making a good film was made in 1977. The changes are cosmetic things that were made to improve the picture. Take the Jabba scene. That was always meant to be included. The only reason it wasn't was because George didn't know if the series was going to be successful, and the scene wouldn't make much sense if there was only one film. He also couldn't get the Jabba creature designed properly. The point is the scene was always meant to be there.
When you watch the Jabba scene you are seeing a 1977 scene. It is not 1997. It was filmed in 1977. Of course there are special effects done in 1997. They improve the scene. What do you want to see an old actor in a costume, just so it can be "1977 vintage??

It may be more in tune with GL's vision, but if that is true, why didn't he make Greedo shoot first, in the original release. Don't tell me it was because of technical restraints. The fact is that Han IS supposed to shoot first.

The whole psycological understanding of Han solo, is completely different.

I think we all agree that is one change that was for the worse, but people on the whole aren't going to fork out 30 bucks for a DVD just to see Greedo!

 

The Special Editions are what you grew up on.

Actually NO, I grew up on the OT. THEN came the new revised version, which is now part of teh package. But to say that I grew up on the SE is ludicrous. Maybe for many of teh younger fans, but some are still of the old school.


And it was re-released without it. So be it. So what if the technogy was limite at the time? Technology wasn't limited 20 years later. The result is a better film.

No, not better film, but rather a different film. You may think it is better.

What do you want to see an old actor in a costume, just so it can be "1977 vintage??
I would expect GL to at least make it look like Jabba, not some ildefined slug, that simply doesn't bare resemblance to the bulky Jabba we see in RotJ.

I think we all agree that is one change that was for the worse, but people on the whole aren't going to fork out 30 bucks for a DVD just to see Greedo!

Considering how much it actually cost to print a dvd with those versions on, it seems lame NOT to include them.

I bet you could have all 3 movies on one DVD.


Oh well




DD -

 

"you can watch the improved version"

No offense, but that's a matter of opinion. I never had a problem with the speeder. Slapping an "improved" sticker on something doesn't mean it's necessarily better to all people. The Han/Greedo scene isn't "better", as you agreed with.

"Lucas would make NO money if he released the original versions."

Again, your opinion. I believe they would outsell the SE's.

"There is virtually no money to be made in re-releasing an inferior version. "

That's funny, because the SE's were financed by the multiple releases of this inferior version. Everytime the original OT was re-issued, people bought them. Re-issue them again, and people will buy them, again.

"Don't listen to the vocal minority George!"

So, now that you have what you want, screw everyone else? Nice.

"The result is a better film."

It is the same film with different effects.

"The changes are cosmetic things that were made to improve the picture. "

You're half right.

"The point is the scene was always meant to be there."

Doesn't explain the redundant dialogue. Lucas would have reshot it if the Jabba effect did work. It didn't so he didn't. By itself, it's a forced scene. (Though it's fun to watch.)

"I bet you could have all 3 movies on one DVD. "

Considering that HD-DVD will be out when the OT comes out, it would be possible then.

"Why watch the originals, when I can watch the same friggin move that was filmed in 1977 in an improved way?"

Why do you feel the need to make this "improved" point over and over again? Why aren't you enjoying your SE's right now, instead of trying so hard to convince us that your opinion of the films is correct? ?

(I get the sinking feeling that this is GL's sock, pissed off at the recent TF.N post and internet movement to release the OT on DVD. )

Dan26, you are more than welcome to enjoy your SE's, but be aware that other people want something different. I don't expect you to understand this, but that doesn't mean you need to knock it.

 

OMG! Why can't he just release them BOTH on DVD so we can all be happy! CRAP!

 

99% of the time. I think I've watched the entire SE only once. Never again.

Old school and proud of it.

 

I prefer the original version, but seeing as the tape was clearly degrading even when the SE's came out, I usually watch the SE's. I'd say, in answer to the original question, about 15%. (More for ROTJ.)

Incidentally, I have no problem with the idea of Lucas "improving" the film- I just think that many of the most obvious changes in the SE didn't improve it (greedo, snootles and screams spring to mind...) But they don't bother me enough to not watch the improved picture etc. of the SE's.

 

I watch the unaltered version of the OT 100% of the time. I own the SE's. I just keep watching the O-OT.

*Old school too*

 

Old School Three

 

New school.

There is only one SE change I actively dislike, and that is Luke's scream in ESB.

Which is maybe ten seconds of the movie.

I love seeing the cleaned-up Yavin battle and the wonderful new ending of ROTJ.

And I sure hope the Ultimate Editions engage in further "revisionism", such as having Ian McDiarmid play Palpatine in ESB and cleaning up the ANH lightsabers.



But frankly I hope Lucas releases the old-school OT as well, just so everyone is happy.


As long as they don't try any of this fullscreen crap again.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

"As long as they don't try any of this fullscreen crap again."

I remember the conspiracy theories about that. TPM was widescreen only (on DVD), then AOTC was widescreen and "fool-screen" . It was proposed that this was a trend that would lead to Ep.III being fool-screen-only.

 

Over the last few years, the percentage of my VHS viewings of the OT that have been the original versions would probably be about:

ANH 50%
ESB 100%
RotJ 25%

 

I don't watch the originals at all because I don't want those tapes to deteriorate more than they have.

 

Trojan Sock: "That's funny, because the SE's were financed by the multiple releases of this inferior version"

I don't thinkso Sock, this was absolutely tiny compared to the amount of money that was made through merchandising, spin-offs, Lucasfilm's other work, ILM's work, Lucasarts etc all added up. However, it did bring in a fair bit of bunce. Remember Lucas is worth five billion. You don't become like this just through rereleasing a massive film. Its his empire that has done it and gives him the money to spend on what he wants.

"Again, your opinion. I believe they would outsell the SE's."

Actually, the originals would make enough to be a sucess but would never outsell any 'special edition'. In fact it would come nowhere near it Trojan Sock. I know its opinionated but you have to be realistic.

"It is the same film with different effects."

So if you are saying it IS the same film then why should it bother you. If you are that concerned I am sure you would not consider them the same film.

"By itself, it's a forced scene"

Far from it, it may be because you are so used to the flow of the o-ot.

"Dan26, you are more than welcome to enjoy your SE's, but be aware that other people want something different. I don't expect you to understand this, but that doesn't mean you need to knock it."

"your SE's"

You are obviously bitter about this Trojan Sock. If I am not mistaken you are the one knocking George and the version he wants, so there is no need to be hypocritical. After all it is George's decisions that matter and always will. I personally would like to see both or all 3 versions on the DVD.

However, I would not lower myself to the point where I disrespect George Lucas and his decisions. If it was not for this man we would not have any versions of these films to cherish in the first place.

 

"That's funny, because the SE's were financed by the multiple releases of this inferior version"

I don't thinkso Sock, this was absolutely tiny compared to the amount of money that was made through merchandising

Considering the fact that I never said the SE's were "completely" financed by them, I do think so! Not to mention the fact that these multiple releases fueled people's desires for all the subsequent merchandising, you certainly give these releases short shrift.

"but would never outsell any 'special edition'. In fact it would come nowhere near it Trojan Sock. I know its opinionated but you have to be realistic."

The bias of my opinion is as obvious as the bias of yours. This is what makes it "unrealistic" to you. I wil continue to believe this. If the set ends up containing both versions, we'll never know.

"So if you are saying it IS the same film then why should it bother you. If you are that concerned I am sure you would not consider them the same film. "

No offense, but I've explained this way too many times in other threads. You're welcome to look them up if you want. Needless to say, the original OT is my preference. Perhaps you feel that people should all agree on one single version, but I like people to have a choice. Otherwise, orange juice would only come with pulp, and people who don't like pulp would be out of luck. Even though it's still the same orange juice, it's not the same "drink".

Besides all that, why does it concern you so much that people prefer one over the other? Is it the fact that people prefer a version other than the one you prefer?

"You are obviously bitter about this Trojan Sock. "

Interesting, since that wasn't the intent of that sentence. Once again, we each have our bias, don't we?

"If I am not mistaken you are the one knocking George and the version he wants"

Where on Earth does it say I have to like George's version? In fact, I liked George's original version, and was a great proponent when it was the "only" version. It would be shallow to just "flip-flop" simply because there's a newer version. When the next model of your current car comes out, do you immediately trade your in for the new one simply because it's "improved", or because it's what the car designer "originally intended"?

Once again, you've simply shown that you feel everyone should like the same thing, and differences of opinion are not acceptable. Do you also insist everyone buy the same house as you? Is your car the same as your neighbors? Do you live your life exactly the way your parents did? Do you consider these expectations "realistic"?

"However, I would not lower myself to the point where I disrespect George Lucas and his decisions. If it was not for this man we would not have any versions of these films to cherish in the first place."

Boiling it down to disrespect? Fine, so be it. It changes nothing. Disagreement doesn't necessarily imply disrespect, and you will not embarrass me into liking the SE's over the original OT.

Just agree to disagree. No one's opinion is going to be changed here.

 

I haven't watched the original versions in about 6 years, but if they were released along with the SEs on DVD I would definately buy them also.

 

The originals have some crappy fx, but the special editions do too. Whats up with that?

 

I only watch the Special editions, I guess because those were the first ones I ever saw. I've seen the originals, but to me there's just something more comfy and familiar bout the SE.

 

I never watch anything but the SE versions, and I'm as old school as you can get. The only change in the SE versions that I dislike is losing the "You're lucky you don't taste too good" line in ESB, and Luke's scream-although I don't think it's supposed to mean he's scared. It just sounds bad. Of the three, the ROTJ SE is the biggest improvement. It took a great movie and made it an incredible one.

 

Trojan Sock: "Considering the fact that I never said the SE's were "completely" financed by them"

Well when you said "That's funny, because the SE's were financed by the multiple releases of this inferior version" , you can understand why I said this.

Trojan Sock: "The bias of my opinion is as obvious as the bias of yours. This is what makes it "unrealistic" to you"

Lets just assume, for equal sake that 50% of fans purchased originals and 50% purchased specials. Then take all the lesser fans who don't know as much and all the families who want buy a copy for the home. It is far more likely that they will buy the one marked "special". Thats why there called "special editions" because if people think they are special they will buy them. Simple marketing and thought, really.

Trojan Sock: "Otherwise, orange juice would only come with pulp, and people who don't like pulp would be out of luck. Even though it's still the same orange juice, it's not the same "drink"."

So you are using this as an anology for a film. So if the changes mean "its not the same drink" or not the same film (in this instance) then why did you say "It is the same film" (Date Posted: 3/18 6:55am). Bit of a contradiction.

Trojan Sock: "Besides all that, why does it concern you so much that people prefer one over the other?

Tell me where I have said anything to indicate that I am concerned over which version one prefers. A little white fib I suspect.

Trojan Sock "and you will not embarrass me into liking the SE's over the original OT."

"Is it the fact that people prefer a version other than the one you prefer?"

So then, if you can make statements of this sort then surely you must know what editions I prefer. OK then, tell me what editions I prefer. Did you miss the part where I said "I personally would like to see both or all 3 versions on the DVD." . So please tell me then??

Trojan Sock: "When the next model of your current car comes out, do you immediately trade your in for the new one simply because it's "improved", or because it's what the car designer "originally intended"?"

I am pretty certain that about 95% of people would say 'of course I would trade in for the new model', wouldn't you??

I think this a bad example Sock. The reason people don't trade in their car for the updated and improved model is because cars are quite expensive. However, you know fine well that most people would trade an older car in for a newer one if given the chance.

Besides, we don't see many cars around from 1977 do we??? Their old, out of date and they don't work very well.

 

This is pointless.

 

For me it is 0% simply becuase the SE is all I own. When I originally bought them about a year ago, I thought to myself "The SE is so much cheaper, I'll buy that now to tide me over until the DVDs when I'll buy the originals". As you can see, Lucas destroyed my plans.
LUCAS, HOW CAN YOU LET YOUR CHILDREN BE DESTROYED?!