Where did Obi go wrong with Anakin?

Where exactly did Obi-Wan screw up in Anakin's training?

In the OT Obi tells Luke that he though he could train Anakin as well as Yoda. Starwars.com says: "Kenobi recklessly thought that he could be as skillful a master as Yoda. His mistakes had dire consequences for the galaxy."

What mistakes did Obi-Wan make? After all, it was the councils desicion to let Obi-Wan train him. Why is not the counsils fault?

Do we know what Obi-Wan's mistakes were as far as Anakin's training was concerned, or is this perhaps one of the many questions to be answered in Ep III?

 

I think Obi-Wans mistake was not paying enough attention to Anakin.

Books like the Approaching Storm and Rogue Planet say that Obi-Wan was too young and unexperienced to train such a powerful young man.
Obi-Wan was also to busy with himself, and with the fact he still mourned Qui-Gon's death, and that he really missed Qui-Gon.

I think it also helped that Anakin was already too old to start the training,

I think it's both Obi-wan's fault, for not giving Anakin the love and attention he needed, as well the Council's fault, because they gave Obi-Wan permission to train Anakin.
Doesn't this make you wonder what would have become of Anakin if Yoda or Mace Windu would have trained him?

 

I personally think Obi-Wan's coping alot of blame that he doesn't deserve. He stated to the council that Anakin is too headstrong, and is not ready for assignments but yet they shrug him off. He's warning the council of problems with Anakin but their not listening to him.

 

"He's warning the council of problems with Anakin but their not listening to him."

I was thinking of this also just now. The damn dark side clouded thier thinking! Like when Obi tries to tell Mace that he doesn't think Anakin should take Padme to Naboo by himself, and Mace just tells him he should have faith.

I think another factor is the pace that Obi-Wan was moving at with Anakin's training. Perhaps it was too slow going considering the power Anakin had already, which is why Anakin felt like Obi-Wan was holding him back. This coupled with the fact that Anakin was 9 when he started training. Plus Palpy is there planting all these seeds in Anakin's mind. But naturally I guess Obi-Wan takes the blame since he was Anakin's master.

I think also that Obi-Wan beleived in very much, respects and takes most seriously the council's decisions and therefore assumes that it was failure on his part that made Anakin turn to the dark side.

 

I think another factor is the pace that Obi-Wan was moving at with Anakin's training.

Its hard to judge whether Obi-Wan training was too slow, because the only evidence we here of this is from Anakin. I would tend to side with Obi-Wan over Anakin. I don't think Obi-Wan's training was too slow, I just think that Anakin was too impatient.

 

Yeah, good point.

 

I think the phenomenon that was Anakin is a product of many circumstances.....This subject ties in with somthing I was discussing with my buddy Kiyodafisto.... The main one being the decay of the Jedi order.... The principles of the old (PT) Jedi order are primarily the causes of Anakin's turning with the additional help by Palpy.... Well Palpy deserves a lot of credit for this.... He plays them all like a fiddle and thuroughly complicates Anakin's training and coming of age.....

From the little I have read from post ROTJ novels, a lot of the old-fashioned principles are abandoned by Luke and company...i.e. forbidden familial relationships. Although we are not exposed to the master-padawan relationships of Yoda/Dooku and Dooku/Qui-Gon, we do see that there was an interesting dynamic between the more risky forward thinking Qui-Gon and the traditionalist Obi-Wan, one may ponder that Obi-Wan would over compensate his traditionalism when dealing with his padawan... which may not be harmful for other padawan but is a HORRIBLE circumstance for Anakin.... Just my thoughts.

 

My thoughts are Obi Wan may have done a couple of mistakes but nothing that would have made Anakin turn. Afterall people only learn through making mistakes.

I think really Anakin was too old to be trained, he had alot of emotions when he left his mother.
I think even if another Jedi had trained Anakin he still would have turned because of the fact he had these emotions when leaving his mum.

Also Palps had alot to do with it, encouraging Anakin to think differently to Obi Wan and other Jedi. Getting Anakin to use these emotions. Which would include anger.

So my theory is it's Anakin and Palps to blame, not Obi Wan

 

I think Obi-Wan cops a lot of blame because he was the only teacher Anakin had (prior to Palpatine). Ani was never trained as a youngling by Yoda. He wouldn't have even been accepted into the Jedi Order if Obi-Wan hadn't decided to train Anakin without the council's permission if necessary. Maybe he trained him too slowly or too strictly. Maybe Anakin's life experiences made his fall inevitable. The answer isn't clear. By the time ANH comes around, Obi-Wan blames himself for his pupil's downfall, and there's no other Jedi to disagree.

 

I do think Obi-Wan was hypercritical; however, I don't think that's why Anakin fell. That may have contributed, but it was a drop in the bucket compared to everything else that contributed.

Obi-Wan was too young and inexperienced to train such a powerful padawan, and he also had no way of understanding what Anakin was going through regarding anger over his former life as a slave, and missing his mother. Add to that the fact that Obi-Wan essentially got no help from the Council--they ignored his concerns--and you've got a mess too large for one man to handle.

 

Obi-Wan was too young and inexperienced to train such a powerful padawan, and he also had no way of understanding what Anakin was going through regarding anger over his former life as a slave, and missing his mother. Add to that the fact that Obi-Wan essentially got no help from the Council--they ignored his concerns--and you've got a mess too large for one man to handle.

Good points. Obi-Wan never paid much attention to Anakin until Qui-Gon died. It's interesting that Qui-Gon had a better understanding of Anakin's slave life and his attachment to his mother because he was there. Makes you wonder how he'd have handled Anakin the teenager. Not that Obi-Wan was unsympathetic, from my point of view, he and Ani seem like good friends in AOTC; I just think Qui-Gon understood Ani a little better.

 

They were definatly like friends but I think Obi Wan may feel that he was too harsh and strict with Anakin, too much in Anakins face about being a perfect Jedi and Anakin not being ready to become a Jedi Knight. Obi Wan probably regrets being against having Anakin take the trials, because of Anakins impressive abilities which Obi Wan overlooked though there was more to being a Jedi then just those. Thats where "he" feels he went wrong.

 

Doesn't this make you wonder what would have become of Anakin if Yoda or Mace Windu would have trained him?

As members of the Jedi Council, they wouldn't have the time to dedicate to his training... even if they wanted to train Anakin.

Still... even Anakin admits that Obi-Wan is a good instructor. He views Obi-Wan as a fatherly figure, although he seems to have great difficulty in paying attention and following Obi-Wan's cues.

Obi-Wan's greatest weakness is his inexperience. IMHO, destroying a Sith Lord doesn't automatically make a Jedi Knight a great Jedi Master, must as a star football player doesn't necessarily become a great football coach. Obi-Wan's doing the best he could, but his inexperience will eventually catch up with him... and it is up to him alone to tame the wild stallion that is Anakin Skywalker.

 

But the thing i never fully understood in the "blaming Kenobi for Anakin's fall" is from what is showed to us in TPM , Obi1 ended training Anakin as a promise to a dying man, QuiGon, not because he was arrogant to believe that he was the only who could train him properly or , better, from the movies ( PT ), you can never tell that Obi1 really believed he could provide a better training than Yoda

 

Obi-Wans alter ego "Renton" from Trainspotting is the bad influence that you may be speaking of.

 

Obi-Wan kenobi resented Anakin from the start. Anakin not only fit into the Jar Jar category as far as he was concerned ("another pathetic lifeform") but Obiwan called Ani dangerous right in fromnt of anakin.

Then there is the thing where QuiGon is ready to dump him and take on anakin because he is more excited about him.

Obi-Wan starts with scads of resentment toward Anakin, and this is complicated by the fact that Qui-Gon is Killed. We have seen that Obi-Wan can go over to the dark soide a bit--through the anger of indignation. (darth maul fight)

When we see them together (WATCH EPs 1 & 2 back to back!) Obi Wan is patronizing and really hard on anakin. I do side with the teacher, but he does not have to humiliate anakin publicly, especially in front of Amidala.

Obi Wan did make mistakes, born from his own defects and weaknesses, but his humility and willlingness to take the blame come out in the end. He does take more responsibility than he deserves and it is a sign of his matured and humbled character.

Remember that as of epII Obi Wan is the star Jedi knight. He is the only one in living memory ever to have killed a sith lord.

 

It all starts in a bar... Obi-Wan is more interested in "having a drink" than showing Anakin the ways of the force. It is strange how Obi-Wan likes to slip off to the local pub for a few drinks. He did it in AotC and in ANH, I understand that he likes the "hard stuff," no wonder once he is struck down by Darth Vader he yet again returns to........



"A Spirit"

 

I think that obi-won didnt have enought experience to handle anakin so in turn anakin turned over to the darkside. The fact of what happened to his mother didnt help matters any either. AND IT WAS TOLD THAT IT WASNT GOOD FOR JEDIS TO MARRY!

 

Anakin had already turned when he married though.

His problem was just having emotions generally.

 

What mistakes did Obi-Wan make? After all, it was the councils desicion to let Obi-Wan train him. Why is not the counsils fault?

Because Obi-Wan made it clear he was going to train Anakin with or without the council's approval. I think the key to Obi-Wan's failure is his arrogance. He displayed arrogance when he spoke openly of defying the council, and we can certainly see Anakin's arrogance in Episode II. So the question is, did he learn this from Obi-Wan? Quite possibly as Obi-Wan seems to have no qualms about belittling his apprentice in order to make his point.

I think Obi-Wan also made the mistake of not respecting Anakin or his abilities, or at least not showing his respect. Anakin is right, Obi-Wan is holding him back, but for good reason. The problem is, Obi-Wan never lets it be known that he does care about and respect Anakin but that he is restraining him for his own good.

And while he tried to be a good friend and a mentor to Anakin (the conversation about Anakin's dreams in Episode II really show a lot of warmth and depth in their relationship), he tended to concentrate too much on Anakin as a Jedi and not enough on Anakin as a person.

In the end, I don't think Obi-Wan made any single catastrophic mistake but more of a series of small mistakes.

 

"In the end, I don't think Obi-Wan made any single catastrophic mistake but more of a series of small mistakes."

Ironically, the same could be said about Anakin himself.

 

Obi-Wan didn't screw up with Anakin. Anakin had serious emotional problems from day one, so serious that nobody but Anakin himself could resolve them, regardless of who trained him.

 

^^^
That's not necessarily true. If the Jedi had paid more attention to Anakin, the distraught young man, the disaster that followed might have been avoided.

 

Anakin was a very good padawan overall. But his fears, attachments, and impatience where his downfall. I don't think it was Obi-Wan's fault at all. He may not have been the best teacher for the job because he just turned from padawan to Knight himself prior to beginning Anakin's training.

Obi-Wan trained Anakin in the tradional way of the Jedi Order. What he wasn't counting on was his attachments. Anakin's un Jedi like sentiments weren't welcome. He condemned Anakin openly for liking Padme.

It was plain ole conflict of interests.

 

A padawan as distraught as that is not Jedi material. If someone with so many personal problems against him wants to be a Jedi, he needs to apply himself, not expect that an organization that admitted him against their better judgment needs to "pay attention to him." This is more like a military organization, not some touchy-feely school for teens where we need to make sure we don't hurt anyone's self-esteem.