Where did the idea that the Empire is weak and completely incompetent come from?

This is something Filoni seems to have really latched onto but I don't think it's backed up by the movies.

The Empire were generally the standard level bad guys with the heroes protected by plot armor but George Lucas did write in some explanations for it. In the Death Star escape from Episode IV it's made clear that Vader and Tarkin wanted the heroes to escape so the Stormtroopers were probably given orders not to hit them, even in this scenario Lucas added the death of Obi Wan when he originally survived because he thought their escape was too easy. Similar thing happens in ESB with Lando and Leia fleeing, it's made clear that Vader had sabotaged the Falcon and he later makes clear that he wants the Imperials to use stun meaning he wants to take them alive and that the Stormtroopers shooting at them previously were probably ordered not to hit them.

The biggest support for the Imperials being incompetent morons comes from ROTJ with the Ewok battle but even there a number of rebels and ewoks are killed, the incompetence mostly comes from the Emperor's overconfidence.

In the movies the general theme is the overconfidence of the Empire but in Rebels the theme is that the Empire are Three Stooges type buffoons.

Stormtroopers can't hit what's right in front of them even when trying, TIE fighters explode if someone looks at them funny, heavily armored Imperial cruisers can be easily destroyed by much smaller ships, Star Destroyers can be easily boarded and sabotaged. Doesn't make for great action scenes if the heroes don't have to work for it.

 

Unfortunately, it is *very* common for the deliberately crafted 'misguided' ones to be treated and presented as stupid and incompetent. I consider it poor form indeed.

 

Hollywood film making for ya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_Evil_Marksmanship

 

I like to see the heroes struggle. Victory is more meaningful to me that way.
It's unrealistic to have all of this stupidity, It reminds me of a show my little brother use to watch as a toddler where the bad guys were harmless.

It's more irritating than funny to me. I doubt I would even have liked this as an 8 year old. I did' t like Aladdin very much at that age.

I tried giving rebels another chance more than once and don't want to endure all of this. I never watched the Ewok movies, so I can handle it.

This one part I saw where Zeb jumped on the tie fighter and the pilots reaction was so dumb.
I hate things getting dumbed down. The droids voices and dialogue in TCW were bad but it's nothing compared to what I have seen from Imperials in rebels. A least the Separatist were a challenge at times.

Yes I know about the Ewoks in ROTJ and I dislike that too.

 

The whole imperial incompetence thing is pretty much fixed next Season 2 and aside from it being confirmed to be a darker season...

We have Red Shirts. RED SHIRTS! RED SHIRTS!!!




These guys will be the ones that make the Stormtroopers actually aim better and give off the illusion that they're a legitimate threat even tho they're not. Like in the Movies! Seeing as no major character has died to a stormtrooper ever? (Don't you dare bring up EU instances) k thx.

 

I know....Rebels is a Disney show on Disney XD, need I say more? Seriously having watched other Disney stuff this makes sense when I think about it. Case closed

 

At the start of the season, I would have agreed with you but we have had the Inquisitor decapitate two Imperial officers, a cave trial where the Inquisitor runs Kanan through with his lightsaber, and I believe someone mentioned Sabine shooting a Stormtrooper squarely in the face on screen. Pictures for these in the spoiler bit.

Spoiler

And to be completely honest, how many clones or rebel soldiers did we see die on screen that weren't named and effectively a "Red Shirt" in the SWU bite the dust? That covers both TCW, Rebels, and the OT.

 

Echo
Fives
Commander Thorn
Hevy
Hardcase
Waxer

Even Jedi die.
Master Peill
Adi Gallia

Nahdar Vebb​

Other characters

Duchess Satine
Rush Clovis
Mina Bonteri

and other's who's names I can't recall,

Deaths are more in TCW​

​

​

 

That's a bad argument because only "2" of those deaths happened in Season 1 (Which Rebels is on It's first season) and those 2 were pretty insignificant characters. Let's see how high the list goes with Rebels at the end of the series.

 

Actually, it's a pretty good argument, because it shows that even TCW took time to build up most characters before they died instead of 'look, a guy who was in the background of another episode! now he's dead! Oh, the humanity'. We haven't seen any of our 'main' heroes die yet because there's only like five of them, and while they do have discernible personalities it really wouldn't be a wrench if any of them died yet. Once we have more on screen characters, we'll see them culling them down a little - I don't expect our main 5 to all make it to the very end of the series. Heroes need a heroic death, that means we need to care a bit more I feel. It's like how Shaak Ti was apparently going to be killed in the PT to give Grievous a bit of cred... but the vast majority of fans would have just shrugged.

 

Just have Zeb and Sabine get shot in the arm or leg or something. It'll make it more interesting...and soothing.

 

I wonder if Rebels would ever get dark like TCW, and have the villain(s) do something similar to this.....

 

Masters Tiplee and Tiplar. I couldn't take seriously the bit in Son of Dathomir when Obi-Wan shouted master Tiplee. The tears on his face, are just... bad. No Jedi with a comedy name should get more tears than the death of Satine. I just can't imagine James Arnold Taylor saying it right either.

 

The incompetence was highlighted in the finale with Sabine jumping all around them and the Stormtroopers "Not again" comment.

Someone mentioned Redshirts but that was the other way around with the hero's instead of the villains and again is a problem for the show. Kirk would beam down to planet with a couple of security guards (who wore Red hence the term) and they would bite it while Kirk would survive. In the films, the Rebel Alliance were kind of the Redshirts when they were with Luke fighting the Empire at Yavin or Hoth with Wedge being the Redshirt who survived. For this show, there is not really any Redshirts, just the main cast with character shields.

The problem is the size of the main cast. It's quite big so it's a big number who don't get hit or hurt. A bit of an issue when the plot for each weeks episode is infiltrate an Imperial complex. It takes away any danger or suspense.

It's an issue for the show, which is why they are bringing Tarkin and now Vader, Dave's saying see look they really are in danger now, Vaders after them and S2 is going to be like ESB to boot.

 

We forget one important fact about ANH.

A tiny group managed to evade hundreds of thousands of stormtroopers, Imperial officers, etc on a space station - equivalent to the size of a dwarf planet.

 

Because good is always supposed to triumph over evil... Even a movie like ESB in which the Rebellion suffers several losses you know they'll just end up fine and dandy. Rarely there are movies and TV series made from the villains perspective and have them be good at what they're doing, because we somehow can't have it happen that they somehow *gasp*.... Permanently overpower a hero.

 

They ... let them escape, remember?

 

I think the only good guy to die was a single wookie in the first episode.

 

That is just Rebel propaganda. Don't belive a word of it! The Empire will never be weak.

 

Walter White in Breaking Bad / Vic Mackey in the Shield and Tony Soprano in the Sopranos would all disagree with you here

While Michael Corleone and Darth Vader would also say hello from films

 

I did say rarely, you know. In a ocean of literature, movies and tv series... That's not really impressive. I can't say that Soprano and Vader ended up that great either. Michael Corleone? He ended up as an empty lifeless shell, lost pretty much everything, and died alone...

For what little success "bad guys" have, it always hits them in the face later on. It's a mentality thing, people can't stand to see evil triumph, and if it does only slightly, it does at great costs. The one exception is in Kotor's dark side ending, you wipe out your former team as Revan reborn, take control over the empire, and the Republic is crushed. No happy ending... Well, from the good guys point of view i guess.

Then Kotor 2 came along, dark side Revan suddenly leaves and the "Sith empire" crumbles in his absence due to infighting.

 

The bad guys usually win when they're in the role of protagonist.
Tyler Durden
Hannibal Lector
Memento
But movies with the bad guy as protagonist are rather rare, admittedly.

 

you know where it comes from?
if you want the 'heroes' to escape , then it ends up looking like the Imperials are a joke.

 

There's a difference between the "Principle of Evil Marksmanship" as depicted in the films and in Rebels. If you look at someone like James Bond, he might be running in a straight line across a walkway, with two people shooting at him with automatic weapons and missing. Difficult to believe, but Bond is still running as though he could get hit. In Star Wars...



Chewbacca is behind cover; R2 creates a smoke screen; the stormtroopers are getting hit as they try to advance down the corridor; the heroes are running.

In Rebels, we get...

 

I don't know... But stormtroopers in ANH are a mixed bag at the very least. First we hear Obi wan mentioning that only they can be so precise, but when they're on board the death star i can count atleast 3 scenes where their marksmanship is seriously subpar. First in the corridor when trying to save Leia, second being when they are having trouble closing the door with troopers only meters away, third being Han's antics running from a horde of troopers all firing down the same corridor with all of them failing to land even one shot on him... They didn't do so well on Endor either. And that was supposed to be a legion of the finest and the elite.

Even if every trooper we saw in ANH had orders to engage but not kill, they still aren't quite that stellar in the movies overall.