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ST Where do you rank TFA?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by SatineNaberrie, Dec 16, 2015.

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Where do you rank TFA among the other films?

  1. 1st (best/most fav)

    64 vote(s)
    8.7%
  2. 2nd

    120 vote(s)
    16.4%
  3. 3rd

    210 vote(s)
    28.6%
  4. 4th

    150 vote(s)
    20.5%
  5. 5th

    64 vote(s)
    8.7%
  6. 6th

    26 vote(s)
    3.5%
  7. 7th (least fav/worst)

    99 vote(s)
    13.5%
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  1. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 2015
    I don't believe Lindelof has anything to do with the scripts for the ST. :)

    The shows you cite are examples of showrunners dragging material along, across countless hours, without a clear idea of where they are going, and then...well...botching it in the end (IMO - some people appreciated the payoff). But based on what we have heard thus far, that is not how Lucasfilm is approaching these films.
     
  2. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    JJ Abrams who was heavily involved in these projects was also the one responsible for the mysticisms without thinking of proper answers to these mysticisms first. Then the people who followed him had to come up with answers.

    TFA's script was a mess so I don't get my hopes up for a better script or any fulfilling answers why Luke Skywalker is so darn important for everyone.
     
  3. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 2015
    1. Abrams was not heavily involved with Lost. He created and directed the pilot, and then left the showrunners to their own devices.
    2. Story-telling in TV shows are an entirely different beast than film.
    3. Abrams has shown that he approaches Star Wars with a passion and seriousness that exceeds his past work.
    4. Though there were some kinks, I think the TFA script (co-written with Kasdan, of course) was very good.
    5. I find it very difficult to believe that the answer to why Luke is so important will not be a key element of at least the next film. You don't set up a cliffhanger like that, and deliver a damp squib.

    I don't see the use in assuming nothing's going to be satisfyingly resolved. Perhaps Johnson will much it up, and Trevorrow will deliver a turkey. But the prospect of being pessimistic about it for the next two years is just too exhausting.
     
    JonoLFC and Ricardo Funes like this.
  4. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    You thought the TFA script was very good? Really? You just admitted the entire premise of the movie was nebulous. How can the script be good if it is mostly about hot air? Both the attack on Starkiller Base and Luke's mystery disappearance are too weak to really drive the plot. Han Solo even jokes about SKB, that's how laughable it is. Rey conveniently develops new skills whenever the plot demands it. What do you think was so great about the script? The jokes?

    I also mentioned ALIAS. Also, the over the top mysticism in Lost started in the first few Abrams-influenced episodes.



    Even if he finds the temple of mysterious powers, how would Leia and Snoke know about his importance? It is a plothole in the making.

    The point is to go in with tempered expectations so you don't get disappointed. It worked fairly well for me. If I hadn't known about Starkiller Base beforehand my reaction to it may have been ... volatile.
     
  5. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 2015
    The script is great if you embrace it as character-driven, rather than plot-driven. Kasdan excels at that. I agree that in terms of plot, the SKB was perfunctory. I would've handled that very differently. But then again, the film wasn't really about the SKB. It was about Rey, Finn, Han and Kylo. And in that department, it was great, IMO. One of the better Star Wars scripts, I think (though again, I'm distinguishing script from story). That said, I still think ESB and ANH are generally better films.
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  6. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I agree that the character arcs of Han, Finn and Kylo were handled rather well. Not everything was spelled out, but there was enough there to know where they are coming from and what drives them. Rey not so much because she got new powers as the plot demanded. If it weren't for Ridley's excellent acting ability the character would be a stinker. Three out of four is good but not excellent imo. And like I said, the overall plot and stakes left much to be desired.

    In ROTJ none of the leads was a miss. Han became more heroic, Leia & Han grew together (plus Leia finally allows herself to show more feelings), Luke found his inner Jedi and Vader turned from the darkside. There's no character where you go "doesn't make sense". Even though the Leia as Luke's sister reveal was a bit flat at least it was set-up and logical. The Emperor and Jabba are flat characters but they weren't meant to be developed.
     
  7. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    I didn't see Luke get offed.
     
    Obi-John Kenobi likes this.
  8. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Hmm - not sure about that. TFA was hardly a study in characterisation. If it were, the film not having a clear plot or compelling story would be less problematic. TFA is no more character driven than TPM, IMO. The real difference being that Rey and Finn are more relatable/likeable... but I think that's more about overall tone than it is about TFA being character driven per se. But that's just my take on it.
     
    Darth Nerdling likes this.
  9. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    I don't think TFA is character-driven at all. In the first place, there is so much action going on at break-neck speed, that the characters barely have a chance to breathe, let alone have many quiet character moments or dialogue with one another. They jump from one set of explosions or actions to another, with very little time given to exposition, explanation, or characterization.

    The characters didn't seem to me to be that well-developed or logically characterized either. As many have said, Rey was portrayed as too good at too many things for someone who has spent her life as a scavenger on a fairly-promitive-seeming world, and she did seem to show all of these great talents just when she needed them. While I like Rey (and I think Daisy Ridley has a lot to do with that), I don't really find it believable that she just happens to be so good at so many things, especially without being taught anything. She should be progressing and developing across several films, but when she already knows so much and can do so much, one wonders why she needs a teacher. She already seems to be able to teach herself everything.

    Then there is Finn, who doesn't behave as though he has been indoctrinated by the first order from birth. He's always cracking jokes and doesn't' act as though freedom is something new to him. Also, he says that he left the first order because he doesn't like seeing people get killed, but then he turns right around and kills people. Is that logical characterization?

    Kylo is simply a mess. On the one hand, we see him stop someone in mid motion, then he's defeated by a new, untrained force-user who never wielded a lightsaber before, so then, he lost most of his credibility as a powerful villain. And then there are the tantrums... He acts like a spoiled three year old; not like a trained force user pushing thirty.

    While I thought Harrison ford did a great job with what he was given, the character himself regressed badly. He went from an excellent military leader back to a not-so-great smuggler wanted by riff raff in the galaxy because of mistakes made in his dubious profession. Not only that, but he seemed to lose a ton of brains and instincts when he walked right up to Ben to "chat" with him. Who didn't know that he was on a fool's errand and where that was going to go?

    Then there's Poe. Poor guy! He was hardly even IN the film. We really learned nothing at all about him except that he's a pilot for the resistance.

    So, no. I don't think that TFA is a character-driven film, and if it was supposed to be, they certainly failed for me.
     
  10. IronMant

    IronMant Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2015
    I don't even consider it to be a legitimate Star Wars movie. To me it's just some bad fan fiction.
     
    Darth__Syphilis likes this.
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