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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series Where do you rate The Clone Wars in the Saga?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by 07jonesj, Sep 4, 2012.

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  1. Arrian

    Arrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 15, 2011
    Ah moonman, where art thou? Your ignorance of the saga and obvious pseudonymous are sorely missed.
     
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  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I can't speak for him but I share his opinion. AOTC has a bad guy posing as a good guy, that same bad guy manipulating the entire Senate into essentially making him a dictator, mystery surrounding the clone army, mystery surrounding Padme's assassination attempt, the beginnings of the Anakin/Padme romance (which, yes, I liked, given that it causes Anakin's fall and his redemption and ultimately, the salvation of the galaxy), the fate of Shmi and Anakin opening a can of whoop-ass on her murderers, and "Begun, the Clone War has.". The only SW film I liked better was ROTJ.

    ESB was good, it had the introduction of Yoda, the "I am your father" twist, and Han and Leia getting together. ANH...meh. We knew who the good and bad guys were and they were all pretty one-dimensional in that way.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Who is Luke?
     
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  4. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 16, 2008
  5. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    To me the good guys and bad guys were never a mystery in Ep. II, and I think GL going with the whole assassination-mystery was a HUGE mistake that drags down the entire film. The people trying to kill Padme are the same exact people that were trying to kill her in the last film. And he spends the whole movie building up to the clones without ever fully explaining where they came from, even after the war starts. To me, that's absurdly bad execution of a mediocre-at-best idea. Good and evil being simple, one dimensional, and at war is part of Star Wars, if I want something other than that I go to another franchise.
     
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  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I strongly disagree, in fact, I go to other franchises for the simple, one-dimensional "good guys" and "bad guys," and then I don't bother looking for message boards on which to discuss those franchises because there's nothing to discuss. The good guys wear one color, the bad guys wear another color, the good guys get caught in a seemingly impossible situation but win in the end, story is done. Simple and one-dimensional is nice popcorn entertainment for a Saturday afternoon--maybe--but beyond that it bores the hell out of me. I might be entertained by the visuals for a couple of hours but then later that evening I'm drinking a nice adult beverage and asking "What the hell did I watch this afternoon?" I've never felt that way about Star Wars, not since ROTJ premiered anyway, because there was so much more to it than that.

    As far as AOTC, I think that people who never saw the OT, might not know right away that Palpatine was evil. Of course we knew, because we know how the story plays out. As far as the clones--I'll agree with you that Lucas made a mistake in not expanding on Dooku and Sifo-Dyas' role in their inception, as Luceno did in Labyrinth of Evil. I thought that was going to be explained in ROTS.
     
  7. Anakin_Prime

    Anakin_Prime Jedi Master star 2

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    Feb 27, 2005
    This question is easy.

    TCW is last. Not by a little.... I'm talking about to the distance to the moon last..... All 6 movies look like masterpieces in comparison.
     
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  8. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    anakinfansince1983 "The good guys wear one color, the bad guys wear another color, the good guys get caught in a seemingly impossible situation but win in the end, story is done" sounds exactly like the OT to me. Anakin Skywalker in the PT era seems like the only character who was ever supposed to have real nuance in Star Wars, and I think Ep. II utterly failed to illustrate that about the character. I don't think Palpatine is in a grey area between good guy or bad guy just because he's in disguise. I just don't see what's cerebral or thought-provoking about the film. If you want cerebral and thought-provoking sci-fi, there are a lot of great Star Trek episodes I can name (from the 1960's - 2000's) that will give you much more to think about than AOTC. Not always having squeaky clean good versus evil disputes is a real strong suit for Star Trek.

    You prefer Hayden Christensen's fireside romance and native species flatulence to Palpatine experimenting on Force-sensitive babies and the CIS enslaving worlds? :eek:
     
  9. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Yes, that's my point. I find that story line boring and overdone. I don't want to know right away who is supposed to be good and who is supposed to be bad, especially since in real life, people aren't so easily pigeonholed. There isn't much about fiction that I want reflected in real life, but human complexity is a factor that I do want reflected.

    I disagree. I saw plenty of nuance in him. But I was done arguing that point a decade ago so I won't explain it.

    But if you haven't seen the OT, how would you know that?

    I'm not and never have been a Trekkie so I can't help you there.
     
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  10. Anakin_Prime

    Anakin_Prime Jedi Master star 2

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    Feb 27, 2005
    YUP! I'm not saying I love every second of the movies. But I sure do enjoy more seconds in the movies than in TCW. ;)

    I remember back when this show was just a thought in Lucas mind. I was so excited!! Bursting!! I thought, WOW, this show is going to be great! A smooth and action packed transition from AOTC to ROTS is in the works! How could this go wrong!?!?!

    Then: :D
    Now: :_|

    Fun Disclaimer: This is just my opinion. I am glad people are still enjoying TCW!! I am actually jealous... I wish I had new SW material to be excited about.
     
  11. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    anakinfansince1983 I do not see human complexity reflected in Ep. II at all. If you won't discuss Anakin, fine, but even if I didn't know Palpatine was a bad guy ahead of time, he would just seem like a generic good guy, so I'm still not really sure where any nuance comes into play there. I honestly don't see what is potentially thought-provoking about that. Star Trek has stories with real nuance that isn't suddenly revealed to be a farce that's actually simple good-versus-evil after all like Star Wars.

    To me Star Wars is about escapism, if I want stuff that will remind me of real life I watch something else.

    Have you seen all of TCW or did you just stop watching it?
     
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    It's not that I won't discuss Anakin, I've discussed him plenty. However, in the "how could you possibly like Anakin???" arguments, I've repeated the same points many times and it seems a waste of time, as people's minds were made up when they saw the films. If you know that you don't like Anakin or see him as a one-dimensional character, I doubt there is anything I could say to persuade you to see him as I do, so what would be the point in my typing out an explanation for my viewpoint?

    And I like escapism as well, but to me one-dimensional "good guys" and "bad guys" aren't escapist, they're boring.

    As far as Palpatine and nuance, the fact that he seemed a generic good guy is where the nuance came in for me, not that his character was ever really nuanced (it wasn't, which is why I don't like him). For those who did not know who he really was, that had to be a hell of a twist in ROTS. For those of us who did, it was interesting to see the majority of the galaxy, including Luke and Leia's mother, viewing him as a good guy.
     
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  13. Anakin_Prime

    Anakin_Prime Jedi Master star 2

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    Feb 27, 2005
    I have seen every episode so far. Since I am such a huge fan of SW, I stayed tuned looking for something I would really enjoy. And I did at times! But those times have been really rare lately... I am leaning to skipping this season. If I do skip it, I will just come on here for recaps... I'm sure you guys will be firing away about likes and dislikes. hahaha.
     
  14. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    I didn't say the character had no nuance in general, I said Ep. II utterly failed to portray him as a character with real nuance. It's because I think Anakin is the only character in Star Wars who should have real nuance that I find his portrayal in Ep. II so dismal. Whether what he's doing seems bad or good on the surface, all his actions ultimately boil down to him insisting on having things 100% his way throughout the film. That's not a sign of nuance but the total opposite, a sign of immaturity. The fact that Anakin is portrayed with greater nuance and less immaturity in TCW is a major factor in why I rank it above TPM and AOTC without question.

    Cool, well I guess we'll see what happens when S5 starts in that case. I personally think S1 is way more hit-or-miss than S4, but that's a matter of taste.
     
  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    He is immature in that film but I always wonder why I seem to be the only one who isn't surprised by that. Maybe because I'm an old fart who was sipping a Tab during the original showing of ANH ("Star Wars." Shut up.) and listening to Abba while riding home from the theater in my parents' wooden-sided Vista Cruiser station wagon, I didn't expect Anakin to behave like a mature adult in that film. He was an adolescent and behaved like an adolescent. At age 19, I was a brat on enough levels to make the Dalai Lama go postal, so I wasn't really appalled by Anakin's behavior, especially given that in the situations in which he really acted out, he was in a situation in which he was either trying very hard to impress Padme or felt very put on the spot, or both. (Please note that that is an explanation, not an excuse, and there is a difference.)

    I also don't see immaturity as a sign of being one-dimensional. His intentions, generally, were good; his way of going about achieving them was often not good and in ROTS, became his personal road to hell. But I did not see him as 100 percent selfish or insistent upon having things his way all the time.

    I do like the fact that in TCW series, we get to see more of Anakin when he isn't having moments.
     
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  16. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    I'm not saying it's unreasonable for him to behave as he did for his age, I'm saying in terms of GL writing the PT in such a way that it illustrates the nuance of the character Ep. II is the best example of how dismally he failed. Same with regards to being one-dimensional. It's not that being young and immature automatically meant he couldn't be nuanced or multifaceted, it's just that GL wasn't a good enough writer to pull off all that (and for the millionth time insisted on writing it himself despite originally saying he wouldn't), so the self-entitled whiner is what we got stuck with.
     
  17. Humble_Jedi

    Humble_Jedi Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 14, 2004
    My appreciation for you just went through the roof. [face_laugh]
     
  18. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Vader's son.
     
  19. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    This is from the temp boards, and I feel obligated to respond to it here.
    I say this because I can't even see how TCW, and the Clone Wars multimedia project and its derivatives are even in the same universe.

    Its an assumption, but it feels like I am being forced to chose because they are so drastically different.
     
  20. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    An assumption that seems to be incorrect in light of the latest news from Chee.
     
  21. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    No, of course Chee wants us to believe the universe is still one story, its his job to make that happen, but I don't see TCW and the Clone Wars multimedia project working together, because TCW drastically alters things that I was perfectly content with in the first place.
     
  22. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    They're already working it out, whether or not you choose to except that is a different issue. Shouldn't you be happy about that?
     
  23. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It seems like they are going to condense most of the Clone Wars multimedia project into the first year of the war, when the Clone Wars multimedia project covers the enter war, which is unacceptable to me.
     
  24. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    The other option is for all those stories you love so much to hit the trash compactor. Would you find that more acceptable? In life we rarely achieve the ideal and must often accept the reality of our position and settle for the best of a set of more reasonable options.
     
  25. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The way I see it, those stories I love might as well have hit the trash compactor, because they are being condensed into the first year of the war, when they were written to cover the entire war, with a dating system to back it up.
     
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