Clone Wars Where do you rate The Clone Wars in the Saga?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by 07jonesj, Sep 4, 2012.

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  1. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    I just cannot comprehend people believing that TCW is better than ESB or ANH. Without these films your precious show wouldn't even exist at all.
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  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I think it's possible to recognize ANH and ESB's contributions to the saga and still enjoy the storyline in TCW better. Personally I don't do "swashbuckling," not in a film I might actually want to have a conversation about later anyway, as it's too simplistic. But some people like that.

    Another poster called the last part of ROTS "bliss" when I would call it "nausea-inducing" and "film hell"; I would rather watch the Holiday Special on repeat than watch that again. So it's all taste anyway.

    As far as Hayden, I also liked Matt's Anakin better. I don't know how much credit the actors get for that or if Hayden was directed to brood and be an emo (a role he specializes in, based on his other films) whereas Matt was directed to show more of Anakin's pleasant side. Either way, Matt showed Anakin as more of a smartass, the side we saw in the AOTC speeder chase scene and the early ROTS scenes, and I enjoyed that.
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  3. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I don't see why ANH and ESB would inherently have to be preferred just because they kicked things off. I don't think anyone has to love Harry Potter and the Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone the most of the novels/movies just because it was first, or that I'm not allowed to prefer Aliens over Alien just because the prior wouldn't exist without the latter, etc.
    Seerow likes this.
  4. Eternal_Hero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 1
    "Precious show" ... bitter much?

    Why I like TCW better than ESB -- it has more of what I like in it!

    ESB: wastes an enormous amount of time setting up incredibly simplistic characters, characters GL had no problem setting up fast & clean in ANH. Larry Kasdan's faux Howard Hawks script doesn't develop or deepen these characters at all. What more do we know about Han & Leia by the end of ESB than we do in ANH? Nothing. Han's a scoundrel with a heart of gold who holds a torch for Leia, Leia is a hard-as-tacks leader who guards her feminine side (duty first!) and holds a torch for Han. Big deal, we already knew that! What more do we learn about the Force, the history of the Jedi/Sith conflict, the Old Republic, the rise of the Empire, the Emperor or Darth Vader? Apart from the fact that Vader is Luke's daddy, we learn nothing knew. The movie is filled with fog shrouded backgrounds (ooh, moody! stylish!) so we don't get to really see a lot of the action or environments and it ends without developing its single new idea: Luke & Vader are related.

    Contrast TCW: the visuals are gorgeous, colorful, exploding with imagination and style, with Lucasian references (the man loves his 'easter eggs'!), they present vast landscapes against which epic stories unfold. It fully explores its one 'new' idea: the clone army. We get to see the clones in training, at war, as rookies and experienced veterans, as individuals, we even meet drop-outs and rebels! The show also develops characters like Anakin, Obi, Padme, Dooku, Boba, even Jar Jar, into fully fleshed out people, far more than we got to see in the PT, certainly beyond anything seen in the OT, way beyond what was presented in ESB. TCW also explores the Force more deeply than any SW film ever has. I like this stuff. It's dark, mysterious, mythic, weirdly religious. GL employs a lot of anthropology and mythography in this material, stuff I'm familiar with, and it makes it more fun for me. Even if you hate that content, we've now really seen aspects of the Sith & Jedi that were never shown before. There have been several TCW storylines with better stories than ANH or ESB, especially the "Umbara Arc", which goes way beyond any of the feature films and makes the rebels in the OT look like cardboard cut-outs in comparison.

    So there ya go. In many ways, TCW is what SW was always meant to be. Like it or lump it, some of us always longed for the bugnuts-crazy SW of the early drafts & unused concept art more than the relatively conservative features we received. I love all 6 films (and I can critique all 6 sharply) but I also love TCW, and it's closer to "my" interior version of SW than ESB.
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  5. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    People are going to like what they like and there is no need to put them down or bother trying to understand why its that way. Alot of people get blinded by nostalgia and automatically remember the first or the first thing they saw as the best thing ever. I have similar discussions in other fandoms. Early seasons vs later seasons of shows. Animes vs their manga counterparts.

    If I was going to rate the saga and TCW. My order would go ROTJ, ANH, ROTS, TCW, AOTC, TPM, and ESB. -Gasp- ESB is my lease favorite of the films, ROTJ is my favorite, and TCW is right in the middle for me.
    ArrogantJedi likes this.
  6. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    While I don't like TCW better than ESB, I agree with you fully on most of this stuff. I don't think people fully appreciate how much TCW follows up on GL's old, unused ideas, including basing things off of Ralph McQuarrie designs that never made it into films. I also completely agree about the Force, it's probably my favorite aspect of the Star Wars universe, and TCW expands on it and presents more sides of it than all of the films. Since I'm so fascinated with the Force, I'm also really fascinated with Jedi/Sith history, another thing I think you're correct to say the movies only glazed over that TCW does a fuller job of showing.
  7. Anakin_Prime Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2005
    star 1
    A actor can only act on what is given to him..... I believe people are throwing the blame in the wrong direction. How on Gods earth could any actor pull off some of the lines he had to read!!! INSANE!!

    Anybody see the movie Takers?? Great movie!
    Last edited by Anakin_Prime, Sep 23, 2012
  8. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    That logic may work for select scenes in Ep. II that are particularly atrocious, but not for the first half of Ep. III IMO.
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    ROTS up until the Squid Lake scene was awesome. I loved seeing Anakin and Obi-Wan as a team, and Anakin's reunion with Padme.

    I don't know where the "bad acting" is. I think Hayden may have been uncomfortable with some of the AOTC lines, and I can't say that I blame him, but I think Anakin_Prime is right in that that can't be blamed on Hayden, who was nominated for a Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actor for Life as a House (in which, FWIW, he also played an emo teenager--in fact, his character in that movie made Anakin look as mature and rational as Obi-Wan).

    The fireplace scene is the one I'm thinking of when I say that I would not want to have to read those lines, however, in some of the other scenes--including the Padme hair-brushing balcony scene in ROTS--yes, the lines are awkward but they're supposed to be. Old Ben's line in ANH was never, "He was the best starfighter in the galaxy, a cunning warrior, and a suave and smooth ladies man...and he was a good friend."
    Anakin_Prime likes this.
  10. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Thank you. I was genuinely interested to see this from the opposing perspective, so this is quite interesting. [face_peace]
  11. ArrogantJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2008
    star 2
    ESB
    ANH
    ROTJ
    TCW + ROTS
    TPM
    AOTC
    all else....

    I like the TCW cause it fills the gaps between AOTC and ROTS, just hope that they go back to S1 + S2 where they focused more on 3rd party Jedi characters and clones.
  12. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    That's why I said the dialogue was a valid excuse for some, but not all, of the bad acting. Throughout the first half of ROTS I think the dialogue is fine but Hayden Christensen seems extremely subdued and not really alive in the moment, like he's experiencing bouts with depersonalization disorder or something.
  13. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    1. A New Hope
    2. Revenge of the Sith
    3. The Empire Strikes Back
    =3. The Clone Wars (series)
    4. Return of the Jedi
    5. Attack of the Clones
    =5. The Phantom Menace
    DNQ. The Clone Wars (movie)
    ArrogantJedi likes this.
  14. _Catherine_ Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    1. Return of the Jedi
    2. The Empire Strikes Back
    3. Star Wars
    4. Star Tours (original)
    5. Droids cartoon
    6. Clone Wars micro-series
    7. Caravan of Courage
    8. The Battle for Endor
    9. Revenge of the Sith
    10. The Phantom Menace
    11. Ewoks cartoon
    12. Attack of the Clones
    13. The Holiday Special
    14. That commercial where R2-D2 smokes a cigarette
    15. The Clone Wars
    16. Star Tours (revamp)
  15. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    So what exactly is it about the Holiday Special that's better than TCW? I've seen that quite a few times in this thread and not sure if it's just rhetorical or there's really something to it.
  16. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    This is very true. There is no doubt the scripts in the PT are terrible.

    However, Hamill, Fisher and Ford were given fairly terrible lines (although I would argue the scripts in the OT were better) and yet they aren't usually as panned as actors - although I know Hamill gets the gears for "Toschi Station" and "That's not true! That's impossible!" ;)
  17. KeltheDor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2011
    star 1
    To be honest, rating the series as a whole would seem rather silly. The movie is the worst of the seven feature films released, and certain episodes like "Blue Shadow Virus" or "Evil Plans" are easily worse than all six feature films. However, the series at its best, in my opinion, easily outmatches the prequel films. The acting and writing are better by a long shot and the visual are often just as striking. Anakin in particular is also a better handled character in the series than any of the prequel films. I don't find them better than the original films at all, but hey, its all up to personal taste.
    Garth Maul likes this.
  18. Spazmatron Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2012
    star 3
    Putting The Clone Wars against the movies is silly...

    I would way rather watch the 4 seasons of the clone wars as compared to any of the 6 movies simply because of the screen time. more time, more fun!

    Despite what people say I liked the launch movie quite a bit, the only thing i didn't like was jabba's son (seriously..)

    So if im talking about that. then

    1. The Clone Wars TV show (more time, nuff said)
    2. ANH or ROTJ (cant decide)
    3.ROTJ (great ending, couldn't stand the beginning though)
    4. ESB (nice, i remember as a kid the Hoth battle was my all time favorite scene and i loved the AT-AT's)
    5. TCW movie (tied with ESB)
    6. TPM (despite what people say this is one of my favorite star wars movies, about tied on par with ESB, because it introduces everyone and is just awesome)
    7. ROTS (just watched it for the 2nd time. Its great, really, despite stupid padme and anakin scenes, but I just dislike one thing. All the good guys get screwed over and it makes me mad -_- Not that it wasn't going to happen but it makes my cry when i watch it :( )
    8. AOTC (I loved the clone part and kamino and stuff, but the horrid romance which was embarassing to watch makes this one the worst ever. not even the battle at the end could make up for it. IMO the geonosis battle should have been way longer than a couple minutes of snippet battle scenes. I actually loved the clones design and stuff, and the clone wars became my favorite era of all star wars right after the movie, though i hated most of it. I remember it gave a wierd feel to it with that organ like music? and the clone wars game for the PS2 just made it feel so... Alien... Kind of the same way when i played Halo 3 for the first time. It just has this magical feel to it which is so facsinating.)

    I also remember i played the clones so much in star wars battlefront 1 that i could beat the OP droids anytime even with a skilled player on their team <3 clones
    Last edited by Spazmatron, Sep 26, 2012
  19. DM99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    star 3
    LOL TCW better than ANH and TESB???
    I think these people never watched those epic Movies?

    My personel ranking

    1. ANH (Of course)
    2. TESB
    3. ROTJ
    4. ROTS
    5. AOTC
    6. TCW (Nice little Show. Good to watch as weekly Star Wars Piece.)
    .
    50. The Expanded Universe (Some good stuff, mostly BS.)
    .
    249. TPM (What an aweful movie. It was just that one dueling scene between Obi Wan and Maul. The rest was just awefull. A waste of time!!!)
  20. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I'd wonder the same thing about someone who ranks AOTC higher than TCW. :p
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Sep 27, 2012
  21. Spazmatron Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2012
    star 3
    oh yeah, that epic movie... hehe

    [face_sick]
  22. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Yeah I probably could have found a better way to phrase that. [face_laugh]:_|
  23. DM99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    star 3
    You
    You cant read maybe?

    rofl
  24. Spazmatron Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2012
    star 3
    Uhh maybe you don't understand me... whatever
  25. DM99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    star 3
    no i understand you.

    Number of Enemies = +1

    EDITED: NSFW language in comic strip (G_M)
    Last edited by Garth Maul, Sep 28, 2012
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