Where's the respect for DJing?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by GrandAdmiralPelleaon, Oct 10, 2002.

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  1. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    A bit sad isn't it? Even after 20 years a DJ still isn't considered a "real" musician.

    Why? I talked to many people about this and usually the answer is "they can't play notes!" They can! There's a guy working on putting it into notations too.

    Your view? I'm kinda interested to see what the people here think...

    For some good DJing, download "Lesson 6" from Jurassic 5 and "Chemical Calisthenics" from Blackalicious...
  2. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Couldn't a music editor then also be considered a musician then? After all, they're re-arranging an existing musical piece, making conscious decisions on what sections to use, perhaps what instruments to be removed, what loops are needed, etc. They're performing a task similar to that of a DJ, only using a different process.
  3. atomik Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    "Couldn't a music editor then also be considered a musician then? After all, they're re-arranging an existing musical piece, making conscious decisions on what sections to use"

    No no, and no. An editor works in his/her studio and takes all the time they need to work on the music. If they make a mistake, they go back and fix it no problem.

    A DJ, on the other hand, has to do this live in front of many people, whether it be in a bar, club, dance, etc.. If they make a mistake they cant just go back and fix it. They end up sounding horrible.

    I think ppl that dont give respect to DJs are ppl that dont realize what is involved. Let's see your average joe go up and even simply mix 2 songs together. And this is just the simple beat matching stuff. Then you get into mixing multiple songs that are playing at the same time, scratching, etc...

    There is more to it than most people think. DJ's are musicians.
  4. JediWarrior Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2000
    star 6
    The song "The Last DJ" sums up his beauty very concisely :)
  5. That_Flashing Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
    A musician, to me, is someone who creates new music from scratch with an instrument.

    First, I don't consider rearranging music to be creating new music. It's just a different version, so the DJ really can't take credit for it.

    Second, turntables are anything but an instrument to me.

    That's just my opinion, though.
  6. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    DJ's don't just "re-arrange" music. *sigh*

  7. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    With all due respect, you should try DJ'ing. It's hard work. I'm with you on this GAP, it needs and deserves respect.

    E_S
  8. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Why aren't DJ's musicians? Because they don't play traditional instruments? Guitar was, for very long, not considered an instrument either. Think about that.
  9. Palpateen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2000
    star 4
    The premise of this thread is hilarious!

    Oh really, the guitar was once not considered a musical instrument? Oh yeah, I believe that. Funny thing, I just opened my telephone book and under MUSIC TEACHERS, I don't see a SINGLE INSTRUCTOR teaching "djing."

    [face_laugh]

    If you believe djs are musicians, I've got some Enron stock I'll be glad to sell you!

    The idea that djing, like rapping, involves artistry and talent is a brilliant and pervasive con job that allows people with no discernible talent to make money and have careers off of young, gullible fans who are suckers for ANYTHING.

    I'm not buying.

    You are entitled to your opinion,
    and I'm entitled to mine. :) Peace.
  10. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    The idea that djing, like rapping, involves artistry and talent is a brilliant and pervasive con job that allows people with no discernible talent to make money and have careers off of young, gullible fans who are suckers for ANYTHING.

    Ha, you shouldn't have said that. Now I know you know nothing about DJing OR Rapping. So please, kindly, shut up if you don't know what you're saying. If you do think Rapping has no talent, then please look up Rebel XD and post a soundclip of you doing the same.

    Young gullibel fans? I hardly think of myself as "gullibel" when it comes to music. But I'm sure your music tastes are much more refined. Please enlighten me.

    I don't know, I didn't raise them. I imagine a lack of funding for school music programs caused them to avoid a life of actual musicianship, but it could be any number of reasons.

    And that, has got to be the lamest excuse ever. Did you know that a hundred years ago there weren't any guitar schools either? ::gasp:: So a guitarplayer that learned to play by himself (e.g. SRV) isn't a musician?

    Please give me a real reason.
  11. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    Personally, I fail to see why DJs should be classed as musicians. They do not create or perform original music, but remaster and mix old tunes. That involves some talent, but IMHO, it hardly classes them as a true musician. Perhaps you could provide us with more information as to why you think they should be classed in the musician category.

    Rap - I love rap, but I do not class rappers as musicians either unless they actually also do the music. However, they are incredibly good orators and I tend to class rap as a form of modern poetry.
  12. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Actually, since you you hardly can tell the tunes from the original I don't see why they shouldn't be. Check out DJ Shadow. He creates music. Just because he doesn't hit strings when doing it he's not a musician? That's kind of a lame excuse.

    Led Zeppelin used parts from Taurus, but nobody stopped calling them musicians...
  13. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    I hear ya :) But doesn't that mean that DJ's are compilers of music rather than musicians? Maybe even bordering on composers?

    Perhaps it's a narrow view that musicians have to actually play instruments, but vocalists are seldom called musicians for that reason.

    LZ played instruments and played them well, hence they were classed as musicians.
  14. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Perhaps if you debated like a mature human being people would be more apt to try to understand your point of view. So please, don't tell people they don't know anything, and don't tell people to shut up, lest they respond in kind.

    People who say Rapping requires no talent don't know anything. I've talked to alot of them and frankly, they work on my nerves. If you don't know a genre exept by Radio/MTV you really can't say anything about it, much less say it has no talent. Which is as disrepectful as you can get.

    Again, you get what you earn...if not for your braggadocio regarding your own intelligence, I wouldn't have pointed out your misspelling of "gullible."

    I wasn't talking about my "intelligence" smarty. I was talking about my music taste. If you're going to whine about my spelling you should know that English is my third langauge. (Behind Dutch and French but before German.)

    Actually, brainiac, the "lack of funding for school music programs" thing was a rather blatant sarcastic comment. But I'm sure you, with all your endless genius, knew that and were simply putting me on.

    Sarcasm really doesn't translate well through text boi.

    DJ's aren't musicians because they don't make music. It's simple, really.

    So you mean to tell me "Entroducing..." from DJ Shadow isn't music?

    Come on, you can do better then that.
  15. Zephyr Xux Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 1999
    star 4
    I don't care what anyone says...last night a DJ saved my life.
  16. Darth_Tayanvo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 2
    In my opinion, DJ's are not musicians. They create nothing on their own and don't have to have any new ideas like musicians must have to create new songs. That is why I do not consider them musicians because they aren't doing anything original.
  17. Zephyr Xux Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 1999
    star 4
    Actually they do. Lots of DJs create completely original songs instead of just mixing (and altering) existing songs. Besides, all those songs that are being mixed had to originate from someone.
  18. Padawan_Learner_Yoda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 2
    Respect for DJs and their art can only be earned in the clubs or shows. If you've never been to or have no desire to go to a live show then you'll probably never truely be able to understand why many consider them to be talented musicians. Or if you are of the biased mindset "rap = Crap" you also won't understand.

    In the right hands two turntables, a mixer, and a health stack of vinyl are indeed a musical instrument, especially when the artist freestyles.

    DJ Shadow of Blackalicious and DJ Babu of Dilated Peoples are such artists.
  19. sergejg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2002
    star 3
    DJs are NOT MUSICIANS, but that doesn't mean that they are inferior or don't deserve any respect.

    The problem with DJs is that they try to be considered as musicians so hard that they end up loosing what makes them indisposable and special, I myself am a true musician and I definatley can't pretend to have the kind of skills that they have on rythm, but then again, a real song is something more than just mixing, however I often colaborate with DJs to create unbelivable songs as a result which I couldn't acomplish with traditional music interpertation methods.

    DJs should stop pretending to be musicians and be proud of themselfs by being what they are, the problem comes when you see people that consider themselves to be a DJ just because they play one song after another one giving a bad name to the true art of mixing which is scratching, having simultaneous songs playing at the same time, morphing the beats,. etc.. and besides, there is also people that play like 3 chords or just happen to sing in tune and belives they are awesome musicans,. which they aren't.
  20. Zephyr Xux Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 1999
    star 4
    I wasn't lying when I said "last night a DJ saved my life."

    Seeing a DJ spin live is truly an experience. I've had a immense pleasure [privilege] of seeing Tiesto live and believe me...this man tears it up; he's known for his non-stop 6-hour long sets. I've seen him get so into it, he literally throws a record onto another turntable.
  21. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Just a quick note, DJ Shadow is not the DJ of Blackalicious, that's Chief Xcel. DJ Shadow's awsome too though. (and he did work with Blackalicious on a few tracks.)

    =)
  22. Silmarillion Manager Emerita/Ex RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 1999
    star 6
    I recently went to the DMC DJ Championship heats in my home town and it was an absolutely fantastic night. If you want to be pedantic: musicians create music. That's their job. DJ's create music. It's as simple as that.

    Mind you, I'm not talking about DJ's that think it's about using the crossfade button to intro the next track. Those DJ's you could throw off a bridge for all I care.
  23. Rogue_Product Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    I think DJs should be classed as artists - musicians if you feel it's your thing - but definitely what they are doing passes for an art form at least. Some DJs deserve the title "musician" whilst other deserve the title "daddy brought me a turntable"... I guess it just depends on your tastes in music. What about asking are composers or conductors musicians? A conductor can be gasped at worldwide, yet he doesn't make a sound... his is an art, is it not?
  24. JediTre11 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2001
    star 4
    I think it depends on what kind of music the DJ is associated with. If they just spin other artists together then I would say they are not much of a musician although it does take an understanding of the music to do so. However there are DJ's that create original music.

    Drum and Bass rules! I am way into Dieselboy and Squarepusher right now for some reason.
  25. Augustus-of-Rome Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2002
    star 4
    Frankly, and no offense to anybody, but I find the idea of a DJ being called a muscian is more than a little far out, and laughable. I even know a few DJ's, and THEY dont consider themselves musicians. Is somebody who takes random selections of MY fiction stories, adds a sentence or two, and copy and paste them together, an author? Even a writer? Of course not. Im not saying that Dj'ing isnt hard work, I guess you can even call it "artistic"...but its not a musician.
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