Where's the respect for DJing?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by GrandAdmiralPelleaon, Oct 10, 2002.

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  1. medleyoz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    DJs aren't musicians they are entertainers- they play other people's music and SLAUGHTER it. For eg. How many classical songs do they want to completely destroy.
    I agree that DJs have talent to mix the music but like I daid they are providing the entertainment they didn't create that music.
    Listen to some Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden and Cradle of Filth now there are musicians
  2. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Cradle of Filth? Ha. Let's cram in as many keyboard as we can mange.

    It's very annoying that you assume that because I listen to DJ's I'd be ignorant of music.

    "Those are real musicians" and what does that prove? That DJ's are not? DJ's do alot more then just re-mix songs. DJ Radar wrote music *for* turntables BTW, so that proves it's an instrument and that DJ's who use it like that are consequently musicians.

    Damn elitists.

  3. Augustus-of-Rome Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2002
    star 4
    Like I said, I dont think a DJ can be called a musician. If somebody copy and pasted sections from random fictional books into a single mismatched document, would that person be an author? No, of course not. If your going to call DJ's musicians, who ELSE can be considered musicians? People who burp the alphabet? People who rip paper plates? Probably not. I am not saying that DJ's shouldnt be respected by people who are into that sort of stuff, bu they should not be called musicians, but entertainers or preformers or something of the kind.
  4. GIMER Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 6
    I agree that DJs ARE performers but not musicians.

    While you could argue that a musician is a person who makes sound with an instrument, and that instument is the CD player/turntable, tape player, that is not the user creating that sound, but taht user is only replaying sound that a musician created.


    That would be like saying I am a filmmaker because I replay movies on my VCR and DVD player wouldn't it?
  5. JediTre11 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2001
    star 4
    Is there a different word for a "DJ" that performs all original material? All of the DJ's I listen to have there own albums full of their own music.
  6. GIMER Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 6
    The DJ is the player of the music.
    The Musician is the creator of the music.

    They can be one and the same person, but just by being a DJ I don't believe you should be called a musician.
  7. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Did everybody just ignore what I posted about DJ Radar?
  8. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Did they igore yo call about Radar? Yep they do that! [face_plain]

    DJ Shadow doesn't make music, neither did/does Moby, neither do Cut-Chemist or Nu-Mark, nor Oakenfold, nor any famous hiphop or dance music DJ. And the idea of evolving ideas isn't anathema to people! :p

    Listen to any trax by DJ Shadow, Cut-Chemist and/or Nu-Mark, and say it's not music.

    E_S
  9. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Cut Chemist Suite

    That's from Ozomatli, Cut Chemist and Chali 2na work(ed) with them.

    But I'm sure you people will tell me that ain't music eh?

    Ender, sadly it seems like you're right about that.
  10. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    People can have their aloof views about the purity of music or whatever; all I know is, (and I work in a music store so I listen to everything, whether I like it or not), music is about emotions. For me, deftones "around the fur" is an album I connect with; music's about songs that are you for a certain period of time. I get that from songs by DJ Shadow too - like "You Can't Go Home Again." It's an amazing song.

    As the song says, "This is a song about being free." You can have your lofty ideals about purity and style, that's fine. Or you can evolve ideas and set yourself free from your limitations. DJ'ing is music of the 21st century. It's a hell of a lot better than twits like Britney or any other manufactered poptarts or "rock" bands - hell, give me Oakenfold over Live anyday!

    E_S
  11. RidingMyCarousel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    I'm going to jump in here:

    In my opinion, the sounds created off a turntable may not be music, but there is plenty of music to go along with most songs that DJs record. First off, there are the drum and bass machines. Secondly, a lot of DJs use synthesizers in their songs. If someone wants to tell me a keyboard doesn't make music, well, shoot me now.

    You have to have a lot of talent to mix and scratch decently, let alone a lot of talent to record the music that some artists do.

    I may not consider the sounds that come out of the turntables themselves music, but I enjoy it and love it for what it is (gotta have my daily dose of John Digweed). Not everyone may love the music, but you at least have to respect them for doing their work. In the way that I've been brought up, I've learned to respect everyone for what they do, even if it is different - I respect DJs I know as much (and some more) than the guitarists I know.
  12. maestrino Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2000
    star 4
    Meh.

    a) How do you even define the word music? Composer John Cage once wrote a piece of complete silence. I still call that music.

    b) I believe EVERYONE has the ability to be a musician. Its all semantics really. A classical orchestral violin player may think a beginner guitarist in a band isn't a real musician. That same guitarist may think the DJ he listens to every Friday night isn't a musician either.

    Sometimes I feel like we should just abolish the word and become music-makers instead. There's all this segregation between composing, performing, mixing... arg. [face_plain]
  13. waheennay Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 4
    Jam Master Jay was one of the greats. He will be missed.
  14. That_Flashing Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
    Im not saying that Dj'ing isnt hard work, I guess you can even call it "artistic"...but its not a musician.

    I agree with this. Sure DJ'ing is difficult, but thats where the respect should stem from. People should respect them because of the talent it takes, not the creativity behind it. I don't particularly think a lot of the sound that comes from a turntable to be very creative. I've heard lots of material from a turntable and I really don't think the people who create this material should be called musicians. Respect for DJs should come from the amount of skill they possess, not the music they create. Just an opinion.
  15. DarthMaul13 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1998
    star 4
    I'm a DJ myself and I don't get as much respect as real musicians.

    To all you DJ-haters, let me see you scratch a few records. You'll be booed off the stage within seconds. If you don't give a good performance, you won't get any gigs.

    I can tell that most of the people here don't go out much. Hit a club or bar and meet some people.
  16. RidingMyCarousel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    Calm down, Maul.
    I understand how much hard work you must do as a DJ. I could never do anything like that. Why don't you add more of your opinion to this conversation? :)
  17. DarthMaul13 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1998
    star 4
    I will agree that we are not real musicians, but we are performers. People pay good money sometimes just to see us. For those who don't know, Paul Oakenfield is considered one of the best DJs in the world. Thousands of people flock to his concerts to see his musical talents. The guy is incredible.

    Just like singers, there are good DJs and there are bad ones. A bad DJ is someone who just plays hits from the radio one after the other. No fading of music, no scratching, no mixing, and absolutely no rhythm. A Good DJ is one that knows how to mix in beats, and play the right tunes at the right time. Some musical genres are harder to mix then others. Techno is very easy for begineers, while RAP is for more experienced DJs. You have to get the FADE-INs right or it will sound awful. You also have to practice before you perform, or you'll mess up and look like a fool. It takes a lot of skill because you have to listen to two songs at the same time and blend them in perfectly. You also have to be quick and throw in the next record for the next song. It's all about timing. If you play a bad song, expect people to leave the dance floor. If you play a song that has been played to the death, expect people to get bored. You always have to bring in music that very few people have heard and throw in an ocasionally hit.

    BTW, those records are expensive. Making money on a single night is really hard.
  18. flying_fishi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2002
    star 6
    I respect the skill that goes into DJing, but I don't think that they're musicians. Performers and entertainers, definately - but not musicians :)
  19. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    mu·sic

    n.

    The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.

    NOTE: This is the first definition on the list, from www.dictionary.com

    Nerriam-Webster's defines music as the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony.

    There are purists who say that synthesizers aren't "real" instruments, and the people who have mastered them aren't "real" musicians. The Greek composer Vangelis, regarded as a master synthesist, has incorporated them in his solo works since the early 1970s. Despite being constantly unimpressed with the bumbling complexity of synthesizer technology, Vangelis has been one of the major driving forces in the acceptance of electronic music.

    I share his view... that all instruments, "real" or "otherwise" have been created with the same intention... to recreate sounds inspired by nature. Nature is the frame of reference after which all sounds are modeled... from where else, even the human imagination being a part of nature, can they come?

    To me, a DJ might not exactly be a "musician" in the conventional sense... but they are every bit as critical to their genre of music as arrangers and composers and musicians and soloists/vocalists are to their respective genres. They deserve respect for what they do.

    I remember in high school that a trumpet player was watching me play the drums and he had remarked, in a rather cocky tone, that the trapset isn't a "challenging" instrument... First, there's no rule that says musical instruments should be needlessly difficult to play. Second, my response to this individual was to hand him my sticks, and quietly watch as he stammered at the drums... absolutely incapable of keeping a beat to the best of his abilities.

    It wasn't that he was stupid... or a bad trumpeter... he failed to recognize two simple realities:

    1. Every instrument requires practice to master... to make something that sounds harmonious, or has a groove.

    2. Every instrument has the same purpose, regardless of the differences in mechanics.

    A turntable was not designed to be an instrument... neither were the vocal chords of the timber wolf... but they have both found themselves used repeatedly for that very purpose.

    Disc Jockeying, which I have done, is an art... like arranging music, editing video... it requires meticulous timing, skill, and sense of rhythm, beat and harmony. One can't simply "throw" things together and expect it to groove.

    In the sense of the definitions for music as given above, I think DJs, most certainly artists, are musicians in their own right.

    In addition, for every type of music there are considerable cultural influences responsible for defining what sounds right... What sounds harmonious in one culture might not in another just in the same way that a rock drum fill sounds absolutely jarring and disharmonious if injected into a jazz piece. The efforts of DJs, electronic musicians, and all those before them, are true testimony to the great diversity of musical expression.
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