Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by fistofan1, Mar 21, 2010.
CW Grievous was a Gary Stu.
Explain please. What is emotionally resonant about TCW? IF anything it is even more devoid of emotion.
Is it? I don't know where you find emotional scenes like Waxer, Boil, and Nuna at her home, Ima-Gun Di's last stand, among many others, on the Genndy CW.
EDIT: And even on a broader sense, the clones. I never cared about the clones has characters until this series.
what's a that?
For instance, the episode where the clones are training to pass the test. That, the rookies episode, and the one where kamino is invaded. The sacrifice Heavy and the messed up clone made were awesome. Heavy giving his medal to the messed up clone [forget his name] just warmed the heart. Them coming together in general was a heart-warming story. Also the speech made when they're with the kid clones. Just all three of those episodes touch on something deeper.
The episode where Yoda get the Tridarians [sp] to join the Republic in season one and he makes a speech to the clones was very deep.
CW was more cut and dry. There was a lot of emotion on the anger side. And perhaps the sorrow side, with Anakin, but otherwise I think it was somewhat emotionally cold.
TCW has this whole family vibe going for it with the jedi and the clones. Having the spotlight on the clones, too, also has the whole "never leave a fallen comrade behind" vibe, which is awesome. It just speaks to something deeply human. When we're in times of great peril, we'd like to think the best of us shines. That we fight for others, even more than or even at the expense of ourselves.
There's just a lot of love in TCW, IMO.
Considering we knew he was going to die, and per his name, I can't see it being emotional.
How does knowing that someone is going to die makes the scene itself not emotional? I advise you to watch it.
If I knew something was going to occur, there's no suspense, emotional, tension, ect, because you know what's going to happen. You know he's going to die in the episode.
Says who? I felt all those things. It was emotional, and there was suspense and tension (even more because I knew he was going to die). You knew something was going to occur, but you didn't knew how.
I knew the Jedi were going to die in RotS, but it didn't made the Order 66 sequence less emotional to me. Not saying it was emotional to everyone, but I know that many people felt that way.
Right there is sort of my point. I love Frodo. Couldn't care less about the clones in TCW. Just because you make a guy look like Igor or write a lame version of Boromir's last stand, does not make it the least bit emotional. It is the television equivalent of Marley and Me.
Genndy's CW gave the characters personality through the art style alone.
Why should I care about Heavy's sacrifice? None of the "Rookies" clones ever get past the boring cliche they are suppose to represent. Not only are they cliches, they are badly written cliches.
No need in Genndy's CW to fill the dead air with paint by numbers dialogue telling us every last emotion that the characters are "suppose" to be feeling. I would argue there is more genuine emotion when Grievous shows up in episode 20, then anything we have seen on TCW.
Genndy's CW shows, doesn't tell.
What kind of comparison is that? Just because you ignore/ridiculize the emotional aspect of the series, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Care to explain that now? How is it different with this series?
Great argumentation there, no doubt...
That's your opinion, only. Questioning about a series being emotional when you ignore it, is a bit dumb to say the least.
I am asking for genuine emotional content earned through exceptional work. I bet I could find those who could say Ghost Rider is the modern day Henry V. Does not make it so.
There is more life in the art style. A raise of the eyebrow, or the subtle smile told you something.
It is all about how the art is used. Look at Padme, Anakin, and others in TCW. How do you know they are feeling emotions? Because they put on the same facial expression you have seen again and again.
Please explain how writing slightly different version of characters that have been seen countless times before incites emotion? Especially when they are written in such a mediocre manner.
I mean could you lay it on any thicker then with 99?
I don't ignore it. It just isn't there the vast majority of the time. That is why eAmbush, Trespass, Lair of Grievous and Voyage stand out so much.
I wouldn't care to see something if I knew the outcome. Makes little sense to watch and enjoy it when the outcome was spoiled/mentioned.
So you have never watched a movie twice?
I understand what you are saying though. Their attempts at being "clever" lead to eye-rolling and makes it hard to take anything seriously. It is all apart of the source of all that is wrong with the show. Bad writing.
Wonder how you've watched the prequels. Specially RotS.
A well written and acted journey it always worth the time. But of course, it needs to be well written and well acted.
You know some of the main characters' fates, but you didn't know other characters in the prequels. But that's not the discussion here, is it?
What I don't care to watch is a Jedi with a bad name doing to die somewhere in Ryloth. Rather spend my time doing something else, which I did of course.
Yes, very abstract requirements.
Of course there is. There needed to be due to the time they had. Besides that's present in this series too.
And that's different in the Genndy series?
So, you didn't felt any emotion while watching ANH, I assume.
Your opinion, not fact.
It's there. Trying to ridiculize it like you did before doesn't make it dissapear.
You didn't even watched the episode, yet you came arguing about not being emotional. Baseless argument.
I don't have to watch anything to not know he's going to die in the episode regardless of the situation he's in. It's been mentioned, joked about, and was spoiled many times before the episode aired.
With names like Imma gonna die, "Dao," and Keeli, yeah I can certainly watch and those characters seriously...
Who's arguing that? Strawman fallacies.
To make my point clear, Alexrd, I know you're a TCW fan who tends to argue a lot with lesser supporters of the show. I know TCW fans dislike it when people point fingers at their beloved show. I see this a lot, and not just in this thread.
I don't have to watch the episode to just watch how Imma gonna die dies or watching the episode in general. For Imma gonna die, there's just no point in watching those scenes because I know he dies, along with his fellow badly named friends. There's no surprise or tension.
Not at all. Next thing you are going to tell me the raw emotion invoked by Barney the purple Dinosaur.
Also like how you ignored the rest of my post there.
The shear energy of the art in Genndy's series makes it different.
Not even close as those characters were well written and acted.
Really? I wrote my own opinion?
Oh the guy who can barely walk and feels inferior is going to make a desperate dash to the munitions and get gunned down? Inconceivable.
Obvious surface attempts at emotions do not resonate, at least not for me. It is like taking Dora the Explorer and comparing it on an emotional level to something like Apocalypse Now.
Is there emotions in Dora? Probably. Doesn't really compare though does it.
No for Santa Claus. What kind of response is that?
Giving someone's life for others is always note worthy. Not only was it for all of his clone brothers, because if he failed, kamino would be invaded, but it was about placing the mission first. It's not a cliche, it's classic warrior ethos.
What emotion was there in Grievous' first appearance other than fear?
Seems to me like you don't like this series very much, which leads me to question your presence.
As far as knowing the outcome taking away from emotional impact... we all know we're going to die, but death is still hard.
In ROTS, we all knew Obi Wan would fight Anakin on a volcano world, leaving him limbless and scarred well before the prequels even came out. Yet, it was one of the greatest, most emotionally resonant scenes in the PT.
I think you're confusing cheesy and cliche with heartfelt and touching.
This is all opinion, of course.
As far as CW saying more in its characters' facial expressions than TCW.... wut?
You're argument makes no sense. Should I smack the next person who smiles at me, saying I've seen that facial expression before, and they need to try harder to get their emotions across with less? "Try being more original!" lol.
I just disagree with you across the board.
The only thing I kind of agree with you on was CW being probably better stylistically. But it would be easy to say the series animation style and style of the series in general was straight ripped from samurai jack in a long line of animation evolution. Everything I saw in CW I had seen before in some capacity on Samurai Jack. It really is the same series with different pieces, if you look at it from that perspective. So, maybe Genndy should've tried harder to come up with something different from his other series, instead of giving us more of the same.
No. I argue when the "lessers supporters of the show" or anyone for that matter, when (but not only) there is a problem with argumentation.
As anything else. That's not a TCW exclusive. I know many here who dislike when someone point fingers over and over (and over) again, many times just for nitpicks. I do see that a lot too, not just in this thread.
No, you don't. Again, who's arguing that? Another strawman...
Who's arguing that? Another strawman fallacy...
How do you know that? Have you seen it? Maybe there's no surprise, but there has to be tension because you don't know when nor how he dies.
I'm pretty much with DarthPhilosopher on this.
This isn't really my favourite discussion on the boards as it, maybe more than others perhaps, gives people an excuse to go 'what I believe is fact and everything different is absolutely wrong!', but I just thought I'd lighten the mood with some comparisons. These are all purely in jest.
In Genndy's CW, Padme is not an idiot
Yoda: Stay on the ship. Dangerous it is.
Padme: Okay. (later) Captain, stay with the ship, I'm looking for Master Yoda. I'm taking an astromech and a protocol droid for protection.
Typho: And NOT your head of security?
In Genndy's CW, Grievous is a threat
Grievous: Jedi! You are surrounded, tired, and your armies are decimated! Now I'm going to swoop in and finish you off while you're down! (later) And now I've brought an implausible amount of Magnaguards to Coruscant!
Shaak Ti: HOW DID CLONE SECURITY MISS THESE GUYS?
And something I noticed...
The Savage Opress story was a total mess where people zipped around and things happened too fast
(Which I agree with somewhat, but it got me to thinking that... )
Ventress: Rawr! I'mma gladiator!
Dooku: I thought you were a warlord.
Ventress: Now I'm a Sith!
Dooku: No. (Force Lightning!) (ZIP)
Ventress: Where am I? Is this my planet or his? If it's mine, why didn't I notice this luxury mansion bef-
Dooku: SNEAK ATTACK! Oh, darn, I rolled a 5.
Ventress: I'll kill you!
Dooku: Not without these you won't. (destroy's Ventress's lightsabers)
Ventress: My master's lightsabers! And the five minute runtime is insufficient for me to express my sorrow!
Dooku: And now I'm sparing you. Here, have two more lightsabers.
Ventress: What? Are you just jerking me around-
Palpatine: Hey. You. I herd yu haet Jedai. Get Skywalker.
Ventress: Yes, my masters! (ZIP)
The problem with this is you always argue regardless.
TCW fans tend to defend their beloved TCW at all costs.
If you have an issue, you should ignore it, but you don't.
If you have an issue, you should ignore it, but you don't.
And the process of this argument goes around and around and around and around and around and around until I submit to you or at least I say an "Alexrd approved" comment then you'll stop arguing. Like I've said before, I do not care for Imma gonna die or the actual episode. There's no surprise or tension because I know he dies regardless of the situation he's in. I've said this many times before.
Alexrd, I don't want to argue with you a lot. Seeing this is what you do most of the time, there should be a time where you should just back off. Arguments like this can turn to an unnecessary heated debate which leads to baiting or worse.