PT Which is more fun - the last half hour of AOTC or the first half hour of ROTS?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by DarthHomer, Feb 29, 2012.

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  1. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    While the head-swapping stuff perhaps isn't one of the more "realistic" Star Wars scenes, that whole sequence still comes across to me as a more stylized continuation of the usual R2/3PO dynamic. In terms of forced humor, though, that's actually how I read some of the Anakin/Obi-Wan banter at the beginning of ROTS. That little scene where Anakin defends R2 by telling Obi-Wan how the little droid is "trying" comes to mind, as it makes it sound like R2 is usually a useless tag along rather than the pretty darned dependable companion from the first two films. R2 engaged in a misadventure fits a bit more with the OT version of the character, so I suppose I can kind of see why they would work that in, but even then it seems to me it's a bit late in this particular trilogy to go that route--might as well have saved the misadventures for the OT as a flip side to the eminently dependable PT version of the character. Or at least not make it sound like the droid is always getting into mishaps when all his prior PT actions seem to be anything but.

    The ray shields thing and Obi-Wan's "we're smarter than this" sticks out as a bit forced as well. To me Obi-Wan just comes across as a little too loose in that whole opening.
  2. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    I know where you are coming from, but these sequences (from the droid factory onwards) just don't feel real to me. I like some of the banter between R2 and 3PO ("I am programmed to understand humans!" R2 beeps - "What does that mean?"), but I dunno, something about the droid factory scene feels off.

    You have that whole 3PO being nudged off the ledge and going on a wild ride very unrealistically (again I don't hate the dialogue "It's a nightmare!"), R2's rockets (I know... he uses them in ROTS as well), Padme far-fetchedly dodging CGI on the conveyor belt, Anakin getting pwned by the machine arm seems out of place (the part where he gets his saber arm "mechanised" is nice foreshadowing though), etc.

    The last half hour of AOTC has its moments, and like all the movies AOTC is quite ambitious, but honestly this movie is the only one that falls short of greatness for me. It is the one I watch the least, but having said that, I got a new TV today and I will probably watch The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones tonight.

    To each his own. Personally I liked basically all the humour in ROTS, and the deleted scenes on the DVD and Blurays supported this further. The stuff with the hand signals, and imitation of the droids... "Roger". Priceless. Also one of the moments left in; R2 being told (not for the first time) to stay behind in the hangar bay. I get the feeling from the style of the exchange that he's used to it. Also enjoy the little hand signal he makes with the communicator.

    I hadn't thought of that, you have a point.

    I think it works. IMO Part of the achievment made by Revenge of the Sith is this contrast, and the gradual mood-slide as Anakin falls. For me, it gave a far greater feeling of seeing what is lost, than AOTC.

    This was probably done just to seemingly flesh-out the background of the movies, to me it demonstrates that the three have been through a fair bit, and can joke about themselves. And I get the sense Anakin considers R2 a friend, even if Obi-Wan doesn't relate to droids on the same level.

    I get the impression Obi-Wan's cocky attitude in the opening of ROTS is entirely intended. The Jedi's arrogance parallels The Emperor's, at the end of each trilogy. You get the feeling that to Obi-Wan and Anakin this is just another 'day on the job'. He's gotten slightly complacent and confident. For
  3. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    True, that line is a nice touch. But it's not really the over confidence that irks me a bit, just that in the Sith opening Obi-Wan still seems a little too casual in general attitude compared to his characterization in the previous two films. I can understand why they wanted to get some banter in as a counterpoint to all the tragic turns of the film's second half, but still, I liked the AOTC Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship enough that I honestly didn't feel the need to see more evidence of a brotherly bond.
  4. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    To me, this needed to be shown for Revenge of the Sith to be the stand-alone movie it (on some levels) is. I partially agree that the bond was already there in AOTC, but I think ROTS is quite unique in the way it presents a world for us then tears it down. IMO this is a very underrated aspect of the film and saga.
    Having said that it is a stand-alone movie, it is alternatively completely reliant on, and supportive of, the other movies in the saga. While representing Anakin's fall is achieved with ROTS alone, it is far richer when it draws from the other episodes, or adds to their themes and meanings. It's the previously missing piece of quite a complex saga.
  5. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    In TESB Obi-Wan reminds Yoda he used to be reckless too. Well, when do we actually see Obi being reckless? He seems to be by the book even as a young padawan, even disapproving of his own Master's "wild" ways (from what I understand, Qui-Gon got most of the traits originally attributed to Obi-Wan). ROTS opening is about the only time he loosens up and shows his more adventurous side.
  6. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    To amend my post: jumping out of the skyscraper window can qualify as reckless too.
  7. Ree Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2005
    star 5
    First half of ROTC- no contest.

    I still find it difficult to watch AOTC at all. Not because it's bad, but because there are many elements within it that aren't to my taste.
  8. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    What an excellent topic! I love them both but if I had to pick one I would say the last half hour of AOTC. I will never forget the screaming, cheering, clapping and all out joy in the theater. To this day i simply have not had that much fun in a movie theater. @};-
  9. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I would go with ROTS. That's not to say that AOTC's ending isn't wonderful, but it can be a bit...much, for lack of a better word.

    The Droid Factory
    The Arena Creature Battle
    The Mass Jedi versus Droid Battle
    The Arrival of the Clones
    Chasing After Dooku
    Obi-Wan versus Dooku
    Anakin versus Dooku
    Yoda versus Dooku

    It's just a bit too much of unrelenting action for me to rate over ROTS. ROTS's opening, while it certainly has a lot of combat, also has a few quieter and calmer moments -- such as jokes in the elevator, discussions with Palpatine, etc. It's not so overwhelming, especially since it's at the start of the film.
  10. Adrian the Cool Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Revenge of the Sith. The Battle of Coruscant is just epic.
  11. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    AOTC

    the first part of ROTS really has no point,

    all it does is introduce a new villain that wasn't needed and the scene killed the already established villain that could easily have fitted Grievous' role

    simply put: It's overlong and doesn't do anything for the story,
  12. PrincessKenobi New Films Manager of DOOM

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 6
    I'm going with ROTS. The only thing I liked about AOTC was the cab chase and club scene.
  13. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2002
    star 5
    Revenge of the Sith.

    Although I do like the last half hour of Attack of the Clones it's interesting how it's ending is quite different from an editing and structural point of view compared to the previous four films.

    A New Hope - The climax of Episode IV ends with one storyline. The Battle of Yavin. The focus is on the space battle occasionally cutting back to Leia and the Rebel Alliance on Yavin, and Grand Moff Tarkin on the Death Star, listening in as the battle progresses.

    The Empire Strikes Back - The climax of Episode V has two storylines. Luke vs Darth Vader, and Lando, Leia, Chewbacca, and the droids trying to rescue Han Solo from Boba Fett. These two events are intercut through out.

    Return of the Jedi - The climax of Episode VI has three storylines. Luke vs Darth Vader and The Emperor, Lando leading the attack on the Death Star II, and Han, Leia and Ewoks trying to knock out the deflector shield on Endor.

    The Phantom Menace - The climax of Episode I has four storylines. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon Jinn vs Darth Maul, Padme and Captain Panaka trying to capture Nute Gunray, Jar Jar and the Gungans vs the droid army, and Anakin and Naboo pilots attack the droid control ship.

    If you've watched the Episode I documentary, The Beginning, you've seen the footage where Lucas and company watch a rough cut of the ending of The Phantom Menace and realized he may have too much going on making it difficult cutting back and forth. (In my opinion the ending of Episode I is extremely well edited so any problems were corrected by the final cut.) Now when we get to Attack of the Clones there is so much ground to cover in the climax that instead of intercutting multiple storylines as Lucas had increasingly done in the past, the events of Episode II's climax flow directly from one to another in a linear fashion.

    Attack of the Clones - Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan vs Arena monsters, Jedi vs droids and monsters, Mace Windu vs Jango Fett, Yoda, Clones, and Jedi vs droids, The Battle of Geonosis as the Republic's army vs the Separatist's army, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme chase Count Dooku, Obi-Wan vs Dooku, Anakin vs Dooku, Yoda vs Dooku.

    Was this a reaction to Episode I's four storylines? Maybe, but it could also have been done to show how events can quickly spiral out of control like a snowball becoming an avalanche.

    Revenge of the Sith returns to intercutting between two storylines - Anakin vs Obi-Wan intercut with Yoda vs the Emperor and later The Birth of Vader intercut with Luke and Leia's birth as Padme dies.

    Kind of got off topic there but thought it was interesting how Attack of the Clones' climax differs from the other films.
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  14. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Between the end of AOTC and the first half hour of ROTS I have to pick ROTS hands down. Coruscant at war was amazing. R2's slapstick stuff was more fun to watch than C-3PO's. I laughed when R2 lit the droids on fire and shocked the Super Battle Droid and it kicked R2.

    The last 30 minutes of ROTS was better though. Obi-Wan vs. Anakin and Yoda vs. Emperor and the aftermath was an amazing end to the SW movies
  15. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    ROTS, the end of AOTC was so choppy.
  16. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I think the weakness of AOTC is that it doesn't have many pieces that can be enjoyed on its own. I think the best way to enjoy AOTC is to watch the whole movie.

    If one decides to just watch the last part of AOTC from the factory to dooku duel, then they will be disappointed because it doesn't top or come close to the grandness of ROTS and TPM's last acts.

    It is extremely important because it starts the clone wars, but it also feels like nothing is accomplished. I felt a lack of danger for the characters. The problem is that everyone needs to be in ROTS except Jango, so it removes tension.

    When I watch the end AOTC duels on their own, they seem awful. But I don't mind it within the full context of the film, even though its still a weak set of duels.

    ROTS duel with Dooku obliterates all three of the duels in AOTC. Something is actually accomplished with some character development and excitingly dark imagery.
    Last edited by BoromirsFan, Sep 3, 2012
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  17. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    ROTS's opening is epic. Terrific. Much better than the last half of AOTC, which really has to be enjoyed as a whole rather than parts as Boromir's Fan mentioned.
    Valairy_Scot and Force Smuggler like this.
  18. kenobifan1999 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    hmmm this is tough.... i'd have to say ROTS barley but AOTC is up there
  19. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    I'm going with the end of AOTC. The buzz droids and all that bogged down the beginning of ROTS, and I can't stand Grievous. I was set up for a major space battle that just turned out to be scenery in the backdrop that pales in comparison to battles in any episode of The Clone Wars. The end of AOTC, especially the first viewing, just felt like back-to-back thrills in several set pieces that kept going. In later viewings, parts of it feel too lengthy though. The only part of the beginning of ROTS that I liked was the discussion between Anakin and Palpatine at the show.
    Last edited by Bobatron, Sep 3, 2012
  20. DeviantSpirit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    I feel like I would be saying AOTC if John Williams had scored original music for the Geonosis battle. Not having new epic and mythical music for the breakout of the Clone Wars was a real let-down for me.

    Revenge Of The Sith's opening shot is still one of my favourite opening shots of a film ever. In the commentary the plan was to have the opening be a montage of battles on different planets, but that was scrapped and later used for Order 66. Still, it would've been a unique and interesting way to start a Star Wars film.
  21. Samnz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    I would agree.
    The Arena is probably my favourite non-lightsaber action scene in the entire saga and the AOTC duels are quite underrated imo. They aren't as intense and astonishingly well choreographied as the ones from I and III, but Obi/Dooku nicely continues Dooku's trial to create an illusionary reality where Qui-Gon would be disappointed with Obi-Wan and Ani/Dooku beautifully illustrates their Jedi/Sith ambivalence with those blue and red flashes.

    The beginning of ROTS is wonderful as well and Palpatine's role is fantastic, but that movie only begins for me really when they arrive on Coruscant.
  22. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    One of my favorite parts of the whole Saga is the beast fight in the arena! Our 3 hero's meet at the beginning of the film, each go off on their own adventure that changes there perspective and then all 3 come together at the end, each changed in their own way, and now they must work together to survive the 3 monsters. That cannot be said of any other Episode in the Saga. Just one more small reason why AOTC is my favorite. @};-
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  23. Frank T. Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    ROTS! The words "Star Wars" are well illustrated in the first 10 minutes. RotS is more fun. The characters are more enjoyable. Grievous' introduction is awesome. Just the first shot of him gives me everything I need to know about his personality. I think he's the most well done CG character ever.=D= The low point of the first twenty minutes of RotS for me is the first word of the crawl: "War!" That made me cringe. After that though, smooth sailing all the way to the happy landing.:D
    AotC's last 20 minute sequence starts off with the worst part of the whole saga for me. Padme's speech to Anakin while waiting to be carted off into the arena made me wanna puke into my popcorn bucket.[face_sick] On top of that there was Threepio's bad comedy which also made me cringe and would be the only other part of the whole saga that I would cut.:oops:
  24. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    I thought John Williams did score an original piece that was then replaced by lucas?
  25. DeviantSpirit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Really? If so, I wonder why Lucas took it out. I'd love for them to release it online somewhere..
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