Which is the real 'Football'?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by Kyptastic, Oct 28, 2007.

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Which is the real 'Football'

Poll closed Mar 26, 2012.
Soccer 39 vote(s) 54.2%
Rugby League 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Rugby Union 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Gridiron 26 vote(s) 36.1%
Australian Rules 6 vote(s) 8.3%
Gaelic 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Other 1 vote(s) 1.4%
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  1. DarthMak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 5
    I read this thread and laugh. The real football of course is electric football.

    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/CowboysvsSteelers.jpg]
    bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
  2. George_Roper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    That's pretty much the worst argument I've ever heard.




    At least when America tries to pass of inferior remakes of British tv shows they have the decency to change the name. Well, until the Office...
  3. JMJacenSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2006
    star 4
    I'm willing to concede that soccer ought more to be called "football" than gridiron does, but that doesn't mean its a better sport.
  4. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    I can believe people took my robert de niro post seriously. :p
  5. George_Roper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    smh @ A_J for pretending that his post wasn't meant to be serious
  6. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    Replace the words "Robert De Niro" in your argument and its still a flawed argument so I'll ask the question again to see if you can answer it this time ;)

    What makes "American Football" real football?

    If you are unable or unwilling to answer that question then please state why "American Football" is better than either Association Football or Rugby Football.

  7. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4

    As for American Football being real football...A big part of the game is the kicking game. Games are won and lost because of Punts, Kick-offs, and Fieldgoals.

    Yes Soccer was first, but should have no claim to being "The" real football.

    American Football is better because there is more action, more strategy, more athleticism, more strength, harder hits, better team play, Less acting and crying, More nuances to the game, and more chances to score.

    Also, tie games aren't settled by an arbitrary system. A 90+ minute game is settled by Penalty Kicks! What about the rest of what goes into a game of soccer? At least American Football is settled on the feild, by playing the game in all of it's facets. American Football is decided by actual game play.
  8. Spike2002 Former FF-UK RSA and Arena Manager

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2002
    star 6
    Also, tie games aren't settled by an arbitrary system. A 90+ minute game is settled by Penalty Kicks! What about the rest of what goes into a game of soccer? At least American Football is settled on the feild, by playing the game in all of it's facets. American Football is decided by actual game play.

    That only happens in competitive knock-out games rather than normal league games. I'd go into the history of extra time and penalties...but I'm too lazy to do so at the moment :p
  9. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    Really though...

    I have been pretty harsh when it comes to soccer on this thread. Just to make myself clear...I like soccer, have no problem with people liking soccer more than American Football.

    I admit being bias, and not really getting the sport. I do watch the World Cup. I just don't think it is as action packed as American Football, or as entertaining. That is why I say American Football is better.

    It really is pointless to keep going back and forth between which is better, since both sports are ingrained in our cultures. There is no way I can convince a soccer fan from the UK or Europe that American Football is better and vice versa.

    So, to find the happy medium,I say KICKBALL is the REAL football!! :p
  10. rechedelphar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 6
    American Football is better because there is more action, more strategy, more athleticism, more strength, harder hits, better team play, Less acting and crying, More nuances to the game, and more chances to score.

    more action: toss up
    more strategy: yes
    more athleticism: no, not overall
    more strenght: yes
    harder hits: yes (but I don't see why this makes a sport better)
    better team play: No no no
    less acting and crying: from players yes, from coaches no
    nuances: tie
    more cahnces to score: no, soccer has plenty of chances, there are just few great chances and actual scores.
  11. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    This is a no brainer. American football has better team play. In Soccer, there are times when a player does not touch the ball, or does nothing for extended periods of time. In American Football, every player has a specific assignment that has to be carried out. When a player does not, it shows, big time.

    In American Football, plays are run by both defense and offense on every play, every minute. Special teams also have plays and coverages that each player has to know and perform.

    Please explain how Soccer has equal or better team play. :confused:
  12. DarthMak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 5
    I noticed that some soccer teams have more logos on their uniforms than race cars. NFL unis do not.
  13. Obese_1_Ka-Blooey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2006
    star 4
    Your point being?



    And I believe, though I do not like international football (soccer for us americans), that the athletes who play are in a whole lot better shape than the gridiron guys. That doesn't mean they're more athletic in terms of skills, but physically overall, soccer players have just as much stamina as a.f. players.
  14. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Harpastum? Or doesn't that count because rugby isn't similar to gridiron... oh wait it is, In fact it derived from it.
    Not really.
    All forms of football (gridiron, soccer, rugby) descended from the same games so its of no surprise that the modern football game has similarities to one of its ancestors, but none of the ancestors are the one that became popular around Europe and the rest of the world. In a way you're actually arguing that homo eructus should be counted as a modern human being because it has similar features. :p
    The most popular sport in Samoa (which was basically part of New Zealand until the 60s) is rugby , the most popular sport in American Samoa is gridiron. What a surprise! (yes there are two Samoas) Also British influence of Hawaii basically ended before the creation of modern football and Hawaii was part of America since the 1890s.
    Anyway I was the one who brought up Africa to point out that your argument about Hawaii and Samoa playing gridiron is as flawed as pointing out that Africans are playing football. Although an interesting note they're playing football in Liberia which was an American colony. :p

    Scolari. :p
  15. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    See, the thing is that doesn't make it any more the "real" football than either Association Football (aka Soccer) or Rugby Football.

    1) The primary tool to scoring and gaining territory in Assocation Football is the foot. The kicking game is very much alive and, I would argue, more central to Association Football. Games are believe it or not, won and lost by kicking the ball both in Soccer and Rugby - just ask the Aussies about Jonny Wilkinson!

    2) Being older certainly gives its argument as the "real" game more credence.

    3) I suggest you watch games from the last two Rugby world cups and the Six Nations ;)

    Yes, play acting is major concern in football at the moment and, in my opinion, brings the game into disrepute.

    4) Actually the penalty kick sudden death scenario is used in knock out competitions as has already been explained. For my part as an England and Southampton FC supporter I have witnessed my fair share of penalty heartache - but one thing is for sure, its edge of the seat stuff!

    Association Football is far from perfect. There is plenty of room for improvements both on and off the pitch but to not recognise the impact that "Soccer" has had on the world is ignorant. To disregard its history and popularity is folly.

  16. rechedelphar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 6
    In football you rely on the coach and the designed play more than on your teammates. Sure a broken assignment could lead to bad things but what many people don't undertsnad is that 80% of soccer is off the ball, almost every goal is set up be teamwork seldomly by an outrageous individual effort. In soccer you must be constandtly creating plays or having new ideas.
  17. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, in the feild of play. You have to admit that at least 80% of the time at least two players have nothing to do with a scoring play. There are times when the ball stays on one side of the feild, with the players on the opposite side of the feild doing nothing but jogging or standing. In American Football, even if a play is not called for a certain player, they still have to sell a fake, or be ready in case the play come to them. Defensive players have to be on their game at all times.

    Also, coaches call the plays in American football, but the QB and the defensive captain make adjustments and call audibles.




  18. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    Except for the entire half the team that isn't even on the field? :p
  19. George_Roper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    This is what can happen when a defensive player in football (in this case the keeper) doesn't keep his mind on the game at all times

    Or this :p



    EDIT: Yes, in the feild of play. You have to admit that at least 80% of the time at least two players have nothing to do with a scoring play.

    Okay, you do realize that when you lose the ball in football you don't get to take a break before the opposition get to try and score, right? You realize that if every single player went forward they'd be leaving themselves open at the back, right? By staying back and not being extremely involved in the attack, they're still playing a vital role.
  20. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    You do realize that I was not talking about defensive players in soccer don't you? You do realize that a lot of the time even players on the opponents side of the field do not touch the ball, or are even involved in the attack. You do realize that soccer players have all the time in the world to rest when they aren't a part of the attack, right? You do realize that goalies do almost nothing, unless the ball is on their side of the field. You do realize that if American football players played both sides of the ball, the whole game, they would not be able to finish a game. American football players lose fluids faster due to the equipment they play with. The weight gets tiring, even when you aren't on the field. so don't tell me American football players get more rest.
  21. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
  22. George_Roper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    Then you're even more off than I thought you were.


    Just out of curiosity, how often do most American football players actually touch a ball?

    You don't have to touch the ball in football to be involved in an attack. You can go on a run to draw a defender in order to make space for a teammate to score, for example. You can stay on the opposite side of the pitch and give your teammate the option to pass to you. Running around after the ball in a pack of 22 is not the way to play football at a professional level. You don't have to be directly involved in an attack to contribute to the team's effort. As I already mentioned, footballers don't get a break after losing the ball in order to organize their defense. It would be pretty silly then to throw all of their players forward in attack, don't you think?

    Do you really have that little understanding of how fit one has to be in order to play football at the highest level?


    I think you need to watch that youtube clip I posted. Or re-watch it until you understand.


    Where exactly did I say they should play both ways?


    You completely missed my point.
  23. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    No, you just can't counter what I posted. Like you posted, not everyone on the team goes foreward on the attack. A lot of the time there are players, who hang back on defense, that do nothing for quite awhile.


    You just posted that it would be foolish to send everyone on the attack. So, what are the players who aren't involved in tyrying to score doing??

    Everyone who is on the feild playing American Football is involved in the play. Not just those attacking. There are more fakes, and misdirection to try to draw an oppenent way from the desires play in American football, it would be foolish to say there aren't.


    We were talking about taking rest, not fitness. Try reading everything, or understanding, before you post.


    :rolleyes: exceptions to the rule do not count. Do not try to argue that goals are scored like that, the majority of the time. If you disagree..fine...but don't resort to fallacies to support you argument. Using that as an example to say that is the norm for all goalies is wrong. The fact is that most of the time, if the ball is on an opponents side of the field, the goalie is inactive.


    You said that American Football Player get to rest/re-organize themselves when the offense loses the ball. You also said Players get to rest before scoring plays, which is absurd.


    No I didn't. That part of my post was not a response to what you posted. That was me adding another example of what goes into playing American Football.









  24. George_Roper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    Counter what? You post You have to admit that at least 80% of the time at least two players have nothing to do with a scoring play. There are times when the ball stays on one side of the feild, with the players on the opposite side of the feild doing nothing but jogging or standing. and expect people to assume that you do not mean defensive players. What exactly am I supposed to be countering?


    You didn't answer the question. How many touch the ball in American football?


    You posted You do realize that soccer players have all the time in the world to rest when they aren't a part of the attack, right?. You're trying to suggest that they don't have a physically demanding job. They do. And part of the reason for that is that they don't have all the time in the world to rest.


    lol Of course they aren't scored like that all of the time. They aren't scored because the keepers normally pay attention for the full 90 minutes. If they don't, there's a good chance they'll be punished for it (i.e. someone will score). As you saw, it only takes a second. Have you heard the saying that sports are 90% mental? There's a reason they say that.


    No, I said they don't get a break before the opposition gets to try to score. Not a rest. So if they don't leave players back they could find themselves giving up a cheap goal.

    Please show me a quote of where I said that american players get to rest before scoring plays.


    Yes, you did. I never said they get more rest.


  25. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    Most of the time 3, sometimes 4. What is your point? If it is to say that everyone else is not involved than you are wrong. Since all five lineman are involved in the play. On running plays WR block, and play fake by running rounts. On passing plays RB's block and play action to draw ddefenders up. So I ask again..What is your point?


    lol [face_laugh] Both of those plays were shots on goal, at or in front of the mid-field line!!!!! WHAT WAS THE OTHER GOALIE DOING?


    I thought you meant they get to rest before a possession switch or scoring play. MY fault.

    But, what is the point? Actually Soccer players DO get a break:

    1.If a shot on goal is saved, the goalie holds the ball, then throws or kicks to a team mate.

    2. Corner kicks and free kicks give defenders a chance to set their defence.


    READ please. I was not responding to your point. I was adding to what American Football players do.





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