Lit Which material does Lucenos' Plagueis reference? Also a question about Outbound Flight

So I'm on a roll here and been reading semi-chronologically since Legacy of the Jedi, with the Dooku and Qui-Gon stuff. Then I read Jedi Apprentice, going through Kenobis journey until I caught up with the developments in LotJ. I read the Jinn/Kenobi LotJ short story, paused it and went back to JA again and its special editions (leaving out the parts with anakin and saving it for when I get to post-tpm/jedi quest). Did the same for Secrets of the Jedi and any instance where it made sense. you get the idea. Jumping back and forth between books. So far this method of reading has been the obvious choice for the Jude Watson YA stuff since it's made very easy for those books. Now that I've more or less finished JA and everything I'm allowed to from that area (as far as chronology goes) I moved on to Maul, beginning with his "biography" stitched together by Windham. I skip the post-tpm prologue and read everything up until that bit in Orsis where Lucenos Restraint short story starts. It's very clearly split so it was no problem. So I go through Restraint and resume the Maul bio, essentially going through some events from Restraint again and a while after that reaching the part where Maul becomes a Darth. Then it's clearly indicated that you can start reading from Saboteur next, so I read that and I read Lockdown. I absolutely loved both. And I got hooked on the Plagueis/Sidious stuff like I feared. (Also appreciated the SW: Bounty Hunter continuity)

So the next obvious step is Cloak of Deception and after that, Shadow Hunter, unless I bother with any of the "Episode I Adventures". But here are my fears and here's what I'm not sure about.. Should I just read Plagueis before TPM? I know I'm going to be teased more with Darth Maul: End game. The reason I'm even asking is because I understood Plagueis weaves in a lot of continuity and it might be worth reading the entire TotJ/Sith era/Bane stuff first. (Particularly Bane). I've even seen people recommend reading Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord etc before Plagueis. Do those books have a lot of flash backs then or what? I don't understand, since Plagueis apparently ends during TPM. Or does it have something to do with the possibility that after you read Plagueis, everything you read in the prequel era from that point on will taste like Palpatine afterwards? If that's the case I understand the preference for publishing order in this scenario.

But anyway, with the focus on Maul and the politics in CoD, it seems like a ripe moment to read Plagueis soon. Either before Terry Brooks TPM or after it. I'm thinking before TPM, so that post-TPM reading will allow smooth transition for jedi stuff once more, with skywalker also introduced into the game, while also continuing obi-wans path.

Thoughts on this Plagueis thing though? Or to put it another way: Will reading Plagueis at this point diminish enjoyment of the rule of two lead-in from the bane series/any bane material? I was planning on taking my time with the Old Republic era a lot later. I had only played the kotor series thus far and used to log quite a few hours in the mmo. So if I won't read Plagueis now, the next logical stop would be after finishing everything from dawn of the jedi all the way to bane. (incl comics).


another similar question regarding Outbound Flight. I get that Zahn intended for the same effect as the star wars prequels. An old viewer will probably watch in chronology, but for a first time reader it's recommended to read the original post-rotj books and then go back in time. For the movies, I get it, but for Thrawn, is it also as important? I would likely miss most references to the post-rotj series in Outbound Flight, but once I get to the original series, It will all pay off as continuity wouldn't it? So what's the difference? Is it really worth going back in time for 1 book?

Sorry for any bloggish elements btw, just want to explain where I'm coming from

 

Plagueis is much more focused on all the leadup-to-TPM material, not on the Bane-era material. It references all the books and also heavily references the comics of that era. Reading it won't diminish your enjoyment of the Bane series. Reading the Bane series will diminish your enjoyment of the Bane series.

As for Outbound Flight, you can just read it and then move on, yes. But you won't get the full impact of the reveals because nothing's been built up. The events of Outbound Flight have been slowly built as a mystery, and Outbound Flight the book kind of plays with revealing that. Most significantly, Survivor's Quest is based around Luke exploring the ruins and finding out a little bit about what happened but not all of it, kind of leaving you hanging with questions. So you won't get the entire effect with Survivor's Quest. But you will get the effect of going, "Ah, I see!" instead, and it's really not that big a deal in terms of enjoying the book. SQ doesn't really depend on that. And certainly the other hints dropped in The Thrawn Trilogy don't really make that much of a difference. I'd say go ahead and read it. The effect isn't big enough to make you go out of your way.

 

I don't think you have much to worry about, it generally all works out, regardless of what you do. They all inform each other.

Knowing what I know, I'd read Cloak of Deception and Shadow Hunter, then Plagueis.

With Bane, it really doesn't matter that much. Read whichever you feel like first. Don't bother with LoE or Dark Lord before Plagueis.


With Outbound Flight, it doesn't really matter. Do it however you like. Read it soon, read it after the Thrawn Trilogy (post ROTJ series), read it right before the Thrawn Trilogy. Doesn't really matter. There is a difference, but it all works out.

 

Plagueis references a lot of pre-prequel and prequel era stuff, I have to give Luceno credit for his tying continuity together.

 

I actually made a list of everything Plagueis referenced back when it was released, specifically because it referenced just so much stuff, even beyond Luceno's usual standards. I don't seem to have it on hand, but off the top of my head:

TOTJ: Freedon Nadd Uprising and Dark Lords of the Sith
KOTOR comic: Vindication
KOTOR
KOTOR II
TOR
Darth Bane: Rule of Two
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil
A Summer's Dream
Jedi Council: Acts of War
Cloak of Deception
Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
Darth Maul: Saboteur
Darth Maul comic
The Monster short story
Jango Fett: Open Seasons
Bounty Hunter
Republic: Outlander, The Devaronian Version, The Stark Hyperspace War, Bloodline, Striking from the Shadows
Inside the Worlds of Episode I
Living Force Campaign Guide
TCW: Monster and Zillo Beast
Star Wars: Clone Wars
Legacy of the Jedi
Jedi Trial
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Labyrinth of Evil
Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader
Droids
Galaxies
Tilotny Throws a Shape
The Dark Forces Saga
Galactic Battlegrounds
Mission to Liana
Heir to the Empire
Various Galaxy Guide, SWAJ, Databank and HNN entries
Tinker Tailor Soldier Praji

 

Trying to reading everything chronologically doesn't always make sense. Especially if you're reading half-stories and cutting back and forth, that's kind of stupid.

Outbound flight and Survivor's Quest (set like 50 years later) should probably be read together, if you haven't read them before. If anything I'd recommend actually reading Survivor's Quest first if anything.

 

Thanks for all the various insight

quite a list

very impressive. Even a ****ing DK reference book and an RTS.. old marvel comics. A shut down MMO.. Incredible. Just sick. If you do manage to recover the "full list" or remember where it is, I'd love to take a copy of it. Either just here on the thread or by PM.

A while back I was ready to read Plagueis slightly later, but now after seeing all the continuity it features, it makes a lot more sense instead to regard it as a center part that you read amongst other tpm era material, with various branches growing in all sorts of directions, all kinds of leads to different stories and events. Events from the past or the future. So when you get to all that other stuff you'll be reminded of Plagueis again.

I agree it's stupid to read half-stories or parts of stories most of the time, but sometimes it very clearly makes sense. Like those Jedi Apprentice novels I mentioned, I mean, Secrets of the Jedi, Legacy of the Jedi, Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest are essentially the same series. Same structure, same tone, same everything. Same world, same author. So it just makes sense to me to read it chronologically, with the first half of Legacy of the Jedi at the beginning, then Jedi—The Dark Side (if you want to drag comics into it), Apprentice etc. It just works really well. Same thing with the Wrath of Maul. My first impression was that it's a very simple book, almost like reading an article on wookieepedia. Nothing very glamorous. But it serves a certain purpose and with what little of Maul there is, you can really maximize its effectiveness by reading other Maul stories in the middle of it. Because really it's just an early life of Maul, training + an intro to Orsis and a rough draft of the Orsis short story and the rest is TPM from his perspective. It could be a unique quality to that book, I'm not sure what the other Ryder biographies are like. Then of course you get people splitting Plagueis into sections. I'm really not really interested in doing that unless I'd be rereading it. I guess it depends on how extreme you are and where you draw the line or what your aim is. Overall I understand your point though. I think it really is book specific or story/event-specific.

Like, at other times it's a big no-no. Like the Republic Commando novels, only make sense to read back to back without branching out to other novels in-between. Essentially a timeline from the start of the clone wars all the way to post-ROTS. That's because it's so isolated from all the other material in that period. It might reference some events going on, but really it is its own world within a world. Sort of why the Republic Commando game is much more gloomier than the movies, because it's from a different lens. Same world, different sensibilities and aesthetics.

 

Luceno truly is a master of Star Wars canon. I said some years ago that anytime they decide to do some major multi-author project that he absolutely needs to head it up, with him getting the final novel.

 

I haven't read Darth Plagueis yet, but I know it makes reference to so many things, almost like the Expanded Universe was suddenly a bit consistent with it's canon. And as a big Dark Horse fan, I am definitely looking forward to reading all of the easter eggs of older stories, especially the classic Darth Maul and Outlander comics. But the Zayne Carrick KOTOR comic too? Damn, I want to finish reading Outbound Flight first though.

 

Would you say you've read most of the stuff Plagueis references? At least all the comics from what I've gathered, with your post.

 

Yeah, although most of it like Jedi Council, Darth Maul and Outlander I've read as a kid so it's difficult to forget about those stories, been reading through all the stuff I missed in chronological order, which is comfortable enough for me when it's just the comics alone, plus I'm just finishing on The Old Republic era so it's easy enough to understand, even if Tales of the Jedi is a drag down the middle. Also currently reading book one of Darth Bane so I'm in the Sith history type of mood. XD

 

Hi Dr. Steve Brule,

I would add "Rogue Planet" by Greg Bear to your List. Leor Hal and his Potentium theory is mentioned only shortly in the Plagueis-novel, but Greg has some more details though it could have been even more for my taste.

 

I'm going to chime in here and also recommend reading the Dark Horse comics set before TPM before reading Plagueis, as it not only references them, it also weaves their apparently random storylines into a coherent Sith plot. I'd read Endgame after Plagueis, as much of it hinges on events and characters from that novel. (It's also partially based on, weirdly but wonderfully, a level from the Galactic Battlegrounds videogame that others might have ignored, so there's that too.)

TC

 

Maybe I need to replay Galactic Battlegrounds, because I have no clue what reference Plagueis makes of it.

 

Plagueis stands on its own, however. You don't need to read any of those stuff to understand the book, and it's a bit more fun, imo, to read the referenced stuff afterwards and get the ah-ha moment.

 

If memory serves me right, it referenced a lot of material.

Its funny because I envisioned Plaguies' death taking place long before the events of TPM (at least a decade or so), so to see the book go out of its way to tie in so many different things like Count Dooku's fall to the Dark Side, Darth Maul's training, and even working in Komari Vosa and the Bando Gora was a little surprising.

 

music to my ears, because I'm pretty sure that's the route I'll go with. It just seems obvious now. I like the idea of having ah-ha moments down the line with other material. Seems like the best way to get a long lasting effect from Plagueis.

 

I'll be honest and say I wouldn't remember 80% of the references if I read the book, then read through the other stuff later. Stuff like the Bedlam Institution for the Criminally Demented. That joke's a gem. You'll never get it unless you read the source first. Many people who even read the source didn't get it the first time because it's so unobtrusive.

But that said, it's not integral for the plot. It's like watching a dubbed film where the translation doesn't include a play on words, although the gist of the scene is the same. But should that mean you not watch the film until you learn the language*? Of course not -- go ahead and enjoy it for what it is.

*Hardcore American fans of Japanese anime aren't allowed to answer that question.

 

Agreed. Honestly I heavily suggest people read Plagueis after having read a ton of EU stuff cause while you can understand what is going on just as well, you won't get the same enjoyment out of it. For a lot of people the stuff with the Yinchori or the stuff with Vidar Kim will not play at all. I waited to read the novel (in fact I just finished 2 days ago) and it certainly pays off.

 

I made the mistake of reading Cloak of Deception directly after Plagueis. I do not recommend that to anyone. I knew pretty much every twist and turn of the plot, which made it difficult for me to motivate myself to get through it.


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I didn't know either.
I bought "Cloak of Deception" because of Plagueis because I thought it is the same EP. I time and a bit before.

 

I can very well believe that. Definitely seems like a book that could hold up a revisit down the line (or even just sections of it) due to all the little details that might not immediately pop out. Surprised to see so many different thoughts and experiences on the matter. In my case, it's clear there'll be some upsides and downsides in terms of convenience no matter which point I decide to read it at. I'll probably just have to absorb it to the best of my ability and hope it at least pays off for the books and comics in the Rise of the Empire era. Any puzzle after that will probably sort itself out.

 

You know I wish it had referenced Vectivus more-he was referred to once, but given according to Lumiya he was a businessman who apparently sought out the Sith himself(rather than having a Sith master find him) and died without you know being killed by his apprentice.

How do all of you fit Vectivus into the rule of two?

 

Don't believe what Lumiya tells Jacen. It was in a conversation where everything else she said, basically, was a lie, and I have no reason to believe what she said about Vectivus was at all true.

 

Of course that's one explanation and the easiest one to square with the rest of Legends canon. But I wanted(or imagined I wanted) a more detailed and unique explanation?

Who was Lord Vectivus? Was what Lumiya said true? Did he really die happy surrounded by friends and family? Did he continue the Sith line?

Did his Holocron contain actual information? Alema gave Jacen a version with cliched business advice.