ST Which ROLES will the new cast be playing?

I really hope Ridley plays a strong emotional woman, but will she wear Jedi robes?

 

I don't even want the Jedi wearing Jedi robes. I'm really hoping that J.J. abandons that aspect. It worked for the prequels, but I'd like the ST Jedi NOT to have any set basic attire.

 

Agreed. I am a big prequel fan, but this is a new era taking place 50-60 years after the PT, plus the jedi code and philosophy would be different as the old guard of jedi failed and succumbed to the sith. The new jedi order should have a new identity which includes new clothing.

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Who says the search would be most of the movie? My bet is we'll have found Luke by about the same point in the film as Qui-Gon finds Anakin in The Phantom Menace.

My thinking is that we'll have some sort of Act 1 event that sets things in motion and then a bit of milling around between various people until Han and/or "Jaina" decides "We NEED to get Luke if we're going to solve this" and heads out to find him. This could be extended a bit if Han is more reluctant than "Jaina" to go and involve Luke and she takes matters into her own hands (ex. she borrows the Falcon without asking, forcing Han to get help from another of the new characters in order to follow her). In terms of time, this would probably be about as long as Tattooine portion of Ep4 or the Naboo portion of Ep1.

Act 2 has our leads arriving wherever Luke is now and after some minor obstacle is overcome (sneaking aboard the Death Star, negotiating with Watto for a replacement hyperdrive) they meet up with Luke and his apprentice and the protagonists of the film start to gel into an actual team by the time we reach the Act 2 climax where something happens and now the heroes have to go save the day from the villains before its too late.

 

Yup! Total agreement.

I posted a storyline in the plot and story thread that matches w your timeline of events.

 

Dark Ginger Jedi:

It's not a "driving need". It's purely logical and what makes SENSE for these characters. Luke, Han, and Leia became VERY close in the OT. Luke and Leia are TWINS and share Force gifts. Luke has ALWAYS been interested in FAMILY. He wanted to know about the father he didn't grow up with; he wanted Leia to tell him about his mother. He lost control of himself for a short time in his battle with Vader when Vader threatened his sister, because he loved her and she was important to him and he didn't want Vader to harm her.

THEREFORE, I would expect Luke to be extremely close to Leia and Han post RotJ and to be a major part of their family, and have a good relationship with them. Because of this, I expect that Luke would continue to communicate with them if he lived far away. Those of us who have close relatives out of state or out of the country continue to call them or skype with them. It's normal and natural. I would think Luke would do the same thing.

Likewise, I can't imagine that Luke would leave for an extended amount of time without telling Leia and Han where he is, just in case there would be an emergency and they would need him for something.

I don't know where they are every minute, no; but I do basically know where they are, yes. And I know where to reach them when I want to. I communicate with out-of-state family members at least once a week by phone and one or two other times through e-mail or text. In your scenario, Luke seems to be away from his family for YEARS. Shouldn't Han and Leia know where he is and how to reach him??

Yes, I think that WOULD be unrealistic, because If that happened, I would think Leia and Han would seach for him a short time after he went missing, and not just because they need him, but because they're WORRIED about him! They wouldn't wait 5 to 10 YEARS!!! Wow! That would be a terrible, uncaring relationship!!! !

That's not soon enough for me either. I want to see Luke have as much screen time as Han Solo.

Because I see it as contrived and unrealistic for these characters who have a close, strong relationship. They should KNOW where he is.

WOW! I would HATE that story!!!!!! I think Luke, Han, and Leia should be treated respectfully and true to their characters. Giving up and doing nothing would not be respectful of these characters and would certainly be WAY out of character for them! Let the new generation have their own new struggles and problems, and achieve their own accomplishments, but let Luke, Han, and Leia have accomplished their original goals of starting to restore the Jedi Order and the New Republic. They deserve to have left a lasting legacy. Don't give those achievements to characters we haven't even met yet.

 

Continuing from my last post:

Avnar :

I definitely don't expect "hundreds" of Jedi, but I do hope there will be at least 18 to 24. I do want to see that Luke has started to train a new order of Jedi. Not only would those Jedi make the ST more interesting exciting, but they could also be used in books and films that take place between RotJ and Episode VII. I'm sure Disney is going to want some Jedi characters for some other adventure stories.








Myself656 :

I don't really want Luke to be missing for half the film either.

 

So the only possible logical outcome is that just because they are close in the OT, that there's nothing in the Galaxy that could foreseeably keep them a part at some point in their futures? Nothing.

Skype and Facebook work well in our modern times to keep in touch, but even with those technologies, it's not that unrealistic that friends and family might loose touch. Or can't communicate because of some other dangerous force. Even ones that really really want to be close.

Personally, I couldn't talk to my brother while he was in Iraq or months at a time. Almost a year! And when he did write to us, he had to lie about his doings and whereabouts because he was in extreme danger. Did us not talking for 9 months, a year, mean we didn't love each other? Or miss each other? Nope. It meant my brother had some important work to do and he put personal desires below that.

While it's entirely likely that Luke and Co. could be close in the ST, heck I'm not even fighting that idea, my point has always been that them losing touch isn't wholly unrealistic either. You say it's contrived and unlike their characters to go into hiding, or lose touch, but that sometimes happens with friend and family. My brother and I are very close, and going off to war wasn't fun, but you need to do what you have to do. Luke is a Jedi. He's got the responsibility to restart the entire Order, to train new Jedi, to keep evil at bay. Dude...That's a lot to carry. And the scenario I'm theorizing about, is that him going into self-imposed exile (which has been done in the movies) and teaching new Jedi in seclusion (which has been done by both his mentors) and being worried about his very close and personal connection to his sister and friends for their and the Galaxy's sake (just like his fight with Vader in the Throne Room) isn't that unlikely. To me, it adds some incredible complexity to their relationships, to their bonds. It adds an air of mystery to what Luke was up to.

You might hate that idea. But it's not that unlikely.

Uncaring? Or maybe just respectful. I'm not saying they wouldn't miss him terribly, or want to see him...but if the Dude's on some mission, he's on a mission. That's actually why I also mentioned that Han might not understand that decision, and when they meet up there's some tension there. He doesn't understand why Luke had to go off like that. So, oddly enough, in that way, you're just like Han

Not sure what to say. I'm probably not going to be looking at my watch while watching the movie. Anakin didn't show up until almost half way thru Phantom Menace, and wasn't he the 'star'? (Actually, I don't even know that answer to that question. He wasn't the POV, but he was the Skywalker character, so who knows.)

But my point is that knowledge of where Luke is, is what causes the potential threat to Leia and Han.

Say that new evil presence that Luke sensed is out there. Luke tells Leia that he's going to such and such planet, and here's his phone number just in case. Years later, Mr. New Evil starts hunting Luke but can't find him. Luke has completely disappeared. He reaches out to Luke. He can sense him, but can't quite find out where he is, its all foggy. However, Luke is really missing and thinking about...a SISTAH (Said in Darth Vader's asthma voice for comedic effect) A sister named Leia Organa Solo, who just happens to be like...the political leader for the Alliance. Wow. Talk about Lucky! He then goes and gets her and tortures her until he reads her mind and finds out...Oh yeah, Luke is on Beach Vacation World Alpha 9. Mr. New Evil immediately gets in his spaceship and goes after Luke. The End. (Star Wars theme music)

Maybe you're right. But it's also 30 some odd years later. A lot could have happened. I want to go into the movie seeing some surprises. I want some of my notions flipped around. I want there to be mystery. I don't think it's as interesting if they've bee super best friends for the entire 30 years, and the movie just happens to start when something bad happens, and Leia has to get on the Holophone to give Uncle Luke a call. She's seen his cheesy ads on the holotelevision about his new Jedi Order fighting Sith Ghosts and needs his help.

Uhhh. Failure is never a bad thing. I really hate that about our modern society. As if failure is the worst thing to ever happen to anyone. We are so drilled into our heads, right from the get go, that failure is always bad. It's really not, it's the only way we actually learn anything.

I'm not saying that Luke and Co. don't create a New Jedi Order or New Republic because they chose not to, or because they gave up. I said that they never lived up to the promise. Which is exactly how a lot of children view their parental generation.

Luke and Co.'s accomplishments where defeating the Empire. I don't quite recall anywhere in the OT where it also said that they needed to accomplish building a new civilization to boot. Or do you not thinking defeating the Empire, the Sith, are a good enough legacy?

All I'm theorizing is that making a new civilization is hard work, and because of a whole host of issues and other dangers (like remnant Governors, new threats taking control left by the vacuum of the fallen Empire, etc) that they couldn't quite do it in 30 years time. Do you really think a galaxy wide government can be created in 30 years?

Tell me; if the New Jedi Order and New Republic are already made, then what's really left for this new generation to accomplish? You want them to have their own problems and struggles, right? Like what...fighting about how awesome the New Republic are. Where's the struggle? How about taking over the reigns and finally building that new world, fulfilling the promise set out by their parents...the promise that your parents couldn't quite finish, not out of failure or laziness, but because it was so daunting, that it took a few generations to finalize.

By the way, it's fun debating you. Ha

 

Dark Ginger Jedi:

I think it would take a LOT more exposition to explain why Luke, Han, and Leia aren't on good terms than it would be to expect them to have a good relationship with one another. When we left them at the end of RotJ, they were close. Explaining a rift would take up some of the film's time. With the necessity of introducing many new characters and their relationships and backgrounds to the audience, and with tons of characters requiring useful roles in Episode VII, I just think it would take up needless screen time to create a break in the relationships among the Big Three.

I'm not expecting to see a flourishing Jedi Order or a totally stable New Republic in Episode VII. However, I'm hoping to see that Luke *has* started that new Jedi Order and that the New Republic *has* been created even though it would likely still be going through some "growing pains". I want to see that Luke, Han, and Leia *have* made some progress toward their goals after 30 years. More work will definitely need to be continued.

And do we even know that the Empire was truly defeated at the end of RotJ? I hope it was, but we don't know that for certain.

I guess you and I will just need to agree to disagree about the rest.

 

Yeah I gotta say I don't need complete galactic reunification but I expect to see some serious progress.

 

I don't think the guy that blew up the first Death Star, defeated Palpatine, and redeemed Darth Vader is going to be able to turn hermit, even if he wanted to. Now, this doesn't mean that Luke couldn't or wouldn't choose a rather quiet world as his home (just not Tatooiene, for the love of God I don't need to go there ever again), but I have a hard time believing that Leia and Han wouldn't know where he was. Also, keep in mind that in 2/3rd of the opening crawls of the Original Trilogy, Luke's location is directly mentioned.

As for the state of the Galaxy? It's probably a long way from being repaired... I mean, the Senate doesn't even exist from Episode IV onward so it'd need to be reconstituted, and so forth.

 

I hope this is a friendly agree to disagree. I think anything's possible. You're totally free to hate the 'search Luke' idea. If there's any reason why I don't think it'll happen is because it's so realistic, it's almost cliche.

I agree with you that I think there'll be no Order or Republic when the movies opens. Both the Republic and Jedi Order were destroyed in EP III at the same time, so their re-creation should also be triggered by the same event on screen. While I don't want a Jedi Order as politically entangled as it once was, I think both are established at the same time...probably in EP IX. That doesn't mean Luke won't have a bunch of Jedi Knights with him before that moment, it just means that as an Order it won't be technically established in name until that final moment.

The reason why I find Luke hiding and the characters reuniting on screen interesting, besides why I've stated previously is, because it progresses all the relationships in slightly new ways.

What's the one thing you want to make sure your hero characters have when you write them; you want them to be relatable. You want the audiences to relate with them, understand them, bond with them.

In my mind, the best way to make the OT Trio relatable in the ST is for them to be in a similar situation as the audience. We haven't seen our OT friends in 30 years. If they also haven't seen each other in some long period of time, then we as an audience can instantly relate to them. "oh yeah, I totally get them, we're in the same position. They're a bit awkward, and so are we" When the characters finally reunite, it's a reward...for them and for us.

I bet when you watch EP VII, those first few moments are gonna be a bit awkward. You'll have butterflies in your stomach. You'll be like...Holly.....I"m watching Han Solo and Leia...onscreen. But after a few minutes you'll sit back and enjoy the ride. Right?

When you say that you don't want Han and Luke to have a rift, or be on bad terms, I agree. I'm not talking about that really. And I don't think it'll take any more exposition than anything else that will have to update the characters and plots. It's more like Han doesn't understand Luke's decisions to learn about the Force. The Force was always a weird thing for him to understand, right? So he doesn't like that it took his friend away. He still likes Luke, they're still friends, but he's upset at the distance.

I also like that this idea continues their bro-mance. Looks at where they started in the OT. In ANH, Han is the coolest guy in the galaxy. Luke is a whiney, no-knowing, farm boy. They're kind of opposites, but through that movie, ultimately friends and save each other. By ROTJ, Luke is now the cool one. He's a Jedi Knight, with a plan and he saves Hans but. Han still doesn't buy this Force stuff. Then Luke disappears from the group to learn more about the Force. By the end of the movie, he sees Luke have an intimate moment with Leia and becomes insecure. The coolest guy around is now jealous of farm boy Luke. Leia puts him in his place and the movie ends with them all friends. Perfect.

Now lets pretend the years go by. Luke is always with them, fighting the remains of the Empire or Remnant Whatever. Occasionally he goes off by himself to learn about the Force, but always comes back soon. Over time, his time away increases. One day, he tells Leia and Han that he's going away for a while, but he'll be back, he promises. Luke senses some evil out there and he has to learn more about it, whatever. To protect them, and himself, and his future plans, he doesn't tell them where he's going. Or maybe he does, but ultimately that isn't his end destination.

Ever have a friend you grew up with but then went to different colleges, and had different majors. You kind of go your own ways. You're still friends and like each other, but you both realize you're on different paths. I went to art school. My closet friends went into business and accounting. When I came back that first year, I was like...art, art, art. And they weren't into that. We were on different paths. A few years later we all got together and at first it was a bit awkward. I'd find out one of them had a bunch of kids and was married. The other was a cop. We were in totally different areas of life. But after a minute, we were all back to busting each others chops like it was yesterday.

Let's take Han and Luke's friendships further after ROTJ. Luke's been gone for a while. Where's Han? He's now pumping out kids and is married. No more adventures for him. Falcon is parked in the garage. All while Luke is out being a Jedi Knight and having adventures - he just knows it. Recently Leia has tried to use the Force more and more and he can see it's waring on her. It's a bit dangerous. And he can sorta tell his daughter Jaina has it in her as well. He just knows that when Luke finally comes back, he's going to take Jaina away on some idealistic crusade and teach her the Force. Over his dead body. He still likes Luke. But misses him and doesn't understand Luke's path, which has some higher expectations. And it causes some drama, and some tension.

One day some baddies show up and Leia tries to the use the Force to reach Luke. She opens herself up and is vulnerable. This is the same baddie Luke sensed all those years ago. Han now has no choice but to go find Luke.

Half way thru the movie, Han and Co. find Luke. He's got 2-3 Jedi Knights with him. Luke is cool and calm. A Jedi Master. A man with a plan. At first it's kinda awkward, but moments later they found themselves in trouble like always and are saving each other's butts again like old times. They share a space-beer and talk about old times.

Then Han and Luke fight in the final battle and Han witnesses this evil, sees the potential in Jaina, finally understands all this Force nonsense, and then sacrifices his life to save her/and Luke. And then makes Luke promise him; train her. He knows that Jaina needs the training to protect herself. That end moment then mirrors Qui-gon making Obi-wan promise to train Anakin. And it comes full circle.

 

Dark Ginger Jedi:

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You did see the smiley face with the wink, didn't you? It was meant to convey that.​

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I guess maybe you misunderstood me. I said that I *did* want to see that Luke *has* started the Jedi Order prior to the start of Episode VII. I don't expect it to be big, but I do hope we're going to find that there are at least about 18 Jedi. ​

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Likewise, I *do* want to see a fledgling New Republic. I'm sure it won't be perfectly stable yet, and I'm sure the galaxy will still have many, many problems, but I want to see a young New Republic and a young New Jedi Order when Episode VII starts. We'll have plenty of time to see the BEGINNING of that recreation of the New Jedi Order and the beginning of the New republic in a film, animated or live action TV show and books later.​

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. I think the restoration of the Jedi Order was pretty much predicted in RotJ with the defeat of the Emperor and Yoda's commission to "Pass on what you have learned". If Episode VII were taking place about 5 years after RotJ, then I could see that Luke might not have started to train anyone, but since this is taking place 30 to 35 years later, I can't see Luke waiting that long to start to resurrect the Order. He's the last Jedi and he has no idea how long he will live, especially since he is often involved in dangerous situations. If he waits too long, the Jedi may very well die out with his death.I hope that Luke would be wise enough and responsible enough to start the new Order as soon as possible and NOT wait 30 to 35 years to begin.​

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Well, I don't know why they wouldn't call call them Jedi or the group a Jed Order, but at least if Luke *has* trained a bunch of knights, that would be fine with me.​

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Which would be fine if we were just reaquainting ourselves with Luke, Leia, and Han and there weren't a whole bunch of new characters to "meet" and learn about. However, because there are so many new characters to learn about, I would think that the filmmakers would just want to keep the Han, Luke, Leia relationship simple. We KNOW these characters. We know they care about one another and they are close. Why mess that up and change it and them into something totally new? We already have plenty of other new characters that could have rifts and various other kinds of relationships with one another. ​

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I THINK this is supposed to be a film which is both a "last hurrah" for Han, Luke, and Leia, and an introduction to a whole new set of characters who will eventually take over the leads. I don't know if the scriptwriters would want to take too much time reworking the Han, Luke, and Leia relationships. There is just too much other stuff to do and too many other characters to think about.​

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With Luke, Han, and Leia, I don't think this is a problem! We already know them; understand them; have bonded with them; and find them endearing. I don't think the filmmakers need to work to make them "relatable" to us. They already ARE. It's the new, young characters that the filmmakers need to make us accept, care about, and relate to. ​

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I don't think so! I think I"m going to be VERY excited and happy to see them again. And I'd rather see them the way I knew them from the OT, as three people who are very close and love and respect one another, not as three people who have suddenly developed a rift with one another or are uncomfortable with one another. They've saved each others' lives many times over. I would think that would cause the formation of a permanent bond.​

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But didn't we have that already in the OT? Han not understanding Luke's belief in the Force? And I think Han came to believe that Luke's Force abilities were real and useful. They did, after all, help Han escape from Jabba's palace. I don't really expect Luke to be sort of on a sabbatical learning more about the Force in episode VII either. Wouldn't he have done that about 25 or 30 years earlier? I would think it more likely that he would be sharing his Force knowledge with others.​

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I"m still hoping Luke will have a family too. As I keep saying, it would be to Disney's advantage if they're going to make lots of films and books going forward. Having a Skywalker in name and blood as one of those characters involved in future adventures along with a Solo cousin, would be a huge positive for future films and book sales. I'm hoping Disney and JJ Abrams understand that.​

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As far as Jedi garb goes, I for one am all for traditional garb, but I don't expect that they'd never change their attire, just that they wear the old school stuff as well. Even the Jedi of the late Republic wore styles unique to their own personalities (yes, they have those, in spite of what some people say). So I should expect nothing different from the small number of Jedi there would likely be in the ST. Not all of them need to dress like Obi-Wan Kenobi, however, just once on the big screen I would like to see Jedi Master Luke Skywalker in traditional Jedi robes.

 

Problem is, we don't know what situation the galaxy will be in. It might be peaceful, or it might be in the middle of another war.

 

Umm...the quote formatting is getting all screwed up. I did my best to make it readable:

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ChildofWinds:

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I guess maybe you misunderstood me. I said that I *did* want to see that Luke *has* started the Jedi Order prior to the start of Episode VII. I don't expect it to be big, but I do hope we're going to find that there are at least about 18 Jedi.​


For me, it's like this; what then is the reward for the characters (and the audience) at the end of the ST trilogy? If the New Jedi Order and New Republic are created off screen, in whatever fledging, new state that they are, what is the arc, the manifestations, or reward for those characters by EP 9? What are the characters actually trying to do? I can't really think of one that would equal the creation of both of those new Orders.


The PT's reward was the creation of the Empire and the Fall of Anakin. Pretty big stuff. Political and Jedi-centric combined. Happened on screen.
The OT's reward was the destruction of the Empire and the redemption of Anakin. Pretty big stuff as well. Political and Jedi-centric as well. Happened on screen.


You're gonna tell me that suddenly after 2 trilogies where big things are created and destroyed at the very end, the ST should just skip all that junk.


In my mind, the ST should follow suit; The desire of the characters throughout the ST is not only to defeat whatever evil is placed in front of them, but to create those new orders. The reward should be the elimination of evil and the creation of the New Republic and New Jed Order.


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ChildofWinds: Likewise, I *do* want to see a fledgling New Republic. I'm sure it won't be perfectly stable yet, and I'm sure the galaxy will still have many, many problems, but I want to see a young New Republic and a young New Jedi Order when Episode VII starts. We'll have plenty of time to see the BEGINNING of that recreation of the New Jedi Order and the beginning of the New republic in a film, animated or live action TV show and books later.​



Nah. I want to see that creation on film in this saga. I want to see what the heroes (and villains) have to go through in order to build it. If we got to see the fall of the Old Republic, the creation of the Empire, the destruction of the Empire, then it's going to feel like we were cheated if the creation of the New Republic and New Jedi Order occur off screen. I'd be like...ummm, both of those things seem pretty darn important. Are you sure we're watching the next episode, cuz I think you missed some stuff.



ChildofWinds: I think the restoration of the Jedi Order was pretty much predicted in RotJ with the defeat of the Emperor and Yoda's commission to "Pass on what you have learned". If Episode VII were taking place about 5 years after RotJ, then I could see that Luke might not have started to train anyone, but since this is taking place 30 to 35 years later, I can't see Luke waiting that long to start to resurrect the Order. He's the last Jedi and he has no idea how long he will live, especially since he is often involved in dangerous situations. If he waits too long, the Jedi may very well die out with his death.I hope that Luke would be wise enough and responsible enough to start the new Order as soon as possible and NOT wait 30 to 35 years to begin.​



Pass on what you've learned, isn't quite the same as "Luke, kickstart the next order...pronto". But there are hints that something is predicted; For the next set of movies. In the same way, EP 4 doesn't open with Luke, the New Hope, already a Jedi Knight and the Rebels have already blown up the Death Star. You'd be like..erm...we missed an episode didn't we?



ChildofWinds:

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Well, I don't know why they wouldn't call call them Jedi or the group a Jed Order, but at least if Luke *has* trained a bunch of knights, that would be fine with me.​

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How 'bout, roaming band of Jedi Knights?

I guess I look at it like...it's not an order until it's a full functioning, established...well...Order. Until the Galaxy recognizes it, or perhaps they or the Jedi Knights give it a 'charter', like a full on proclamation of it's ... Order..ness. haha


Luke can have a few Jedi Knights with him. They go out on adventures, doing cool acts. Word starts spreading in the Galaxy..."Didya See him? It was a Jedi?" "Dude, I think that was Jedi" "The Jedi came out of nowhere, fought that dude, then vanished...he didn't stick around" 'Are you kidding son, they've been extinct for 40 years."



I almost view it like...well, not to bring in religion here, but like Jesus. I'm not implying that Luke = Jesus, or anything that...just there's some structural similarities. At that time, a lot of people were waiting for the messiah. They wanted the Messiah to show up and start a revolution, kick out the Romans, and bring about a new kingdom. According to scriptures, Jesus came along and was like...Umm...I have other plans. He chose 12 disciples and wandered the land, teaching and doing good deeds. This wasn't enough for some people. They really wanted a war. Then Jesus dies and is resurrected, and his 12 disciples go and spread the word even more and the new Kingdom/Church starts.


That's sort of how I see it. In EP VII, we see that Luke has just a couple of Knights. He does his thing, making plans. 12 Knights, mostly to symbolize Camelot (and my other prediction that Luke sets out to find a New True King, like Merlin and Arthur, to lead the New Republic once that's created as well) And his death in EP IX, galvanizes all of them to officially start the new Jedi Order. They become the new council, and they start taking on many new apprentices and continue his teachings.


And maybe that's where the villain comes in. I don't like the idea at all of Luke's first Jedi's suddenly wanting to learn about the Dark Side. I think that's lame. But...following the above example...if one of those first Knights wanted to speed up the revolution. He lacked the patience for Luke's plans. He leaves the band of roaming Jedi to do his own work, he goes rogue, tries to get the revolution going on his terms and then falls...that might be interesting. He doesn't become Sith, or maybe even Dark.

ChildofWinds:

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Which would be fine if we were just reaquainting ourselves with Luke, Leia, and Han and there weren't a whole bunch of new characters to "meet" and learn about. However, because there are so many new characters to learn about, I would think that the filmmakers would just want to keep the Han, Luke, Leia relationship simple. We KNOW these characters. We know they care about one another and they are close. Why mess that up and change it and them into something totally new? We already have plenty of other new characters that could have rifts and various other kinds of relationships with one another.​

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I THINK this is supposed to be a film which is both a "last hurrah" for Han, Luke, and Leia, and an introduction to a whole new set of characters who will eventually take over the leads. I don't know if the scriptwriters would want to take too much time reworking the Han, Luke, and Leia relationships. There is just too much other stuff to do and too many other characters to think about. ​


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I agree with that completely. I just think that our reunion with them is handled in a way that's relatable. You're right, the character arcs and focus is on the New Guys/Gals. But if the parents are going to hand the reins off to them, then we should still feel a bit for the OT Trio too. Relating to their stage in life, is important. Just as important as it was, when they were young punks in the OT and you can't just rely on nostalgia for that.



ChildofWinds:

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With Luke, Han, and Leia, I don't think this is a problem! We already know them; understand them; have bonded with them; and find them endearing. I don't think the filmmakers need to work to make them "relatable" to us. They already ARE. It's the new, young characters that the filmmakers need to make us accept, care about, and relate to.​


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Well. Yes and no. Every movie is going to have to have you relate to the characters as they presently are. And that can't just happen because of nostalgia. The characters are at different stages in life, and in the plot, and will need to be presently relatable.



ChildofWinds:

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But didn't we have that already in the OT? Han not understanding Luke's belief in the Force? And I think Han came to believe that Luke's Force abilities were real and useful. They did, after all, help Han escape from Jabba's palace. I don't really expect Luke to be sort of on a sabbatical learning more about the Force in episode VII either. Wouldn't he have done that about 25 or 30 years earlier? I would think it more likely that he would be sharing his Force knowledge with others.​

Ahhh, I see. So it's okay for certain things to be the exactly same as it was for the OT Trio...but not others. One one hand you want the characters to be just as you knew them, buddies, nothing changed, and then on the other hand...you fault me for saying that another aspect of their relationship remains the same and we see how that evolves. Gotcha.

ChildofWinds:

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I"m still hoping Luke will have a family too. As I keep saying, it would be to Disney's advantage if they're going to make lots of films and books going forward. Having a Skywalker in name and blood as one of those characters involved in future adventures along with a Solo cousin, would be a huge positive for future films and book sales. I'm hoping Disney and JJ Abrams understand that.​

Disagree ... Just because her last name might be Solo, doesn't negate her Skywalker-ness genes. I"m okay with Luke being married w/ children....but I think I'd rather a Luke who's not a father. His...children...are the Jedi "Order". Anakin had two children, boy and girl. The OTs main hero was the boy. Yoda then speaks of another, the girl. Originally, I believe, Lucas’ notes for the ST were about Luke searching for his sister. Since he already knows that’s Leia, its reasonable to think that her daughter is the next in line. Daisy could be the next chapter, the ST’s hero character. She’s the one to take the reins and finally finish this thing. She’s the one to actually build the new Order.

But I getcha, movie, marketing, business, toys. The name Skywalker has equity.

 

Here's a theory...

Actor Adam Driver will be Boba Fett's son. Actress Daisy Ridley will be Han and Leia's daughter. Fett's son and the Solo daughter will develop a relationship during the new trilogy. I can see some humor in a sequence in which the Solo daughter allows Fett's son to pilot the Falcon during a crisis. Can you imagine Han's reaction to that twist? Meanwhile actor (unsure of first name's spelling) Gleeson will be the son of Luke Skywalker and a former female Imperial Inquisitor (no not Mara Jade...I know the old EU is no more...rather a new character that'll be developed in the new EU, Red Five and other upcoming sources). If the mother is not a former Imperial Inquisitor then perhaps she is the young lady from cut ANH scenes on Tatooine. I think her name was Camie. At the time of ANH she was seeing Fixer, but she had her eye on Luke (nickname 'Wormie'). It is my guess that she and Luke were reunited when Luke came back to Tatooine during ROTJ. Further Camie might have helped Luke establish a branch of the Jedi Order on Tatooine. Luke and Camie might have renovated Jabba's old palace into this branch of the Jedi Oder.

 

DarkGingerJedi:



Defeat of the trilogy's BIg Bad; a more stable galaxy and New Republic; possibly the addition of more Jedi knights; maybe another boy gets girl or girl gets boy.

Maybe it wouldn't be quite the EQUAL, but why should it be? Why shouldn't our beloved OT characters have been allowed to make a great contribution to the galaxy? Why save that for the next generation?

Your ideas seem to be stuck on the idea that Episode VII immediately follows Episode VI. However, it DOESN'T. 30 or 35 years have gone by. There should have been changes and progress. Things shouldn't just stagnate and remain as they were at the end of RotJ. There's plenty of time for Luke to start the Jedi Order by training some folks as Jedi knights; for the New Republic to be started (with lots of growth likely still needed) ; and for Luke to marry and have a kid/kids too.

And we can still see all of those things in spin-off films; in books, and in live-action or an animated TV shows that fill in all of those momentous events that took place in those many years between Episodes VI and VII. Disney is planning to get a lot of mileage out of their purchase of the SW franchise. Not everything *must* happen in Episode VII. I think that's part of the excitement of seeing that new SW film: seeing the changes that have taken place in the galaxy and the Jedi Order and the personal lives of the OT characters after several decades.

We saw the death of the Emperor and the redemption of Anakin. We don't really know if the Empire was completely destroyed or if someone else stepped in to take over and continue the fight. But, even if that WAS the end of the Empire, then we should expect progress to be made after that. The rebels were fighting to restore the republic. Once the war is over, we should see steps in that direction. The galaxy has been without a Jedi Order for over 20 years at the end of RotJ, and Yoda commissioned Luke to pass on his Jedi skills. I think it's logical to assume then that at least a little progress would be made in restoring the Order. Rebuilding the Order and the NR especially makes sense if it's a time of relative peace.

What would you have these characters do otherwise???? Just passively sit by and do nothing for 30 or 35 years??? That doesn't sound like Luke, Han, or Leia to me!

And why shouldn't that have been the "reward" for Luke, Han, and Leia and their friends and colleagues???? Why just give the beginning of the restoration of the Jedi Order and the New Republic to new characters we haven't even met and don't even know whether we're going to like, while making the Big Three look like losers and do-nothings for 30 to 35 years?????

I guess I just don't understand why you don't want the Big Three to leave a lasting legacy?



We should FEEL as though we've missed some stuff!!! RotJ didn't take place last week when we see Episode VII. It took place 30 or 35 years ago! Things shouldn't just stand still.

AND, I'm confident we will eventually see all of those things. We will just have to wait to see them for a little while. I'm sure they will be shown in a future film or TV show and in books.



I believe it is a commission of Yoda to Luke to start to restore the Order that his father helped destroy. It will take a long while for the Jedi Order to be a truly flourishing new Order, especially since Luke is the only one available to train Jedi at the beginning I think/hope Luke will feel an urgency to begin, knowing that he is the only one who can accomplish this, and knowing how short and precarious life is.

And why is that important to you? I like the idea that Luke would be the founder of the New Jedi Order, not only because I like the character and feel he should be allowed to accomplish something great, but because there is that nice symmetry of Luke restoring what his father destroyed.

There was a Jedi Order in the PT; there was no Jedi Order in the OT; I think there should be another Jedi Order in the ST. That's a nice pattern.

Jesus started the Church. His disciples continued it. I'd like to see Luke start the Jedi Order and his knights continue it.



I hope there will be at least 18.

Oh, I believe we WILL! I'm expecting a LOT of cheering when Luke, Han, and Leia first arrive onscreen. I truly don't think there would or should be any problem relating to them or "connecting" to them.



The only ways I wouldn't be able to "relate" to them would be if there was a rift between the characters or if Luke is turned into a hermit. Otherwise, I don't think I will have any problem accepting them and relating to them.

Nope! Not the same at all. You want Han to be shown as not understanding Luke's belief in the Force. I think Han got over that a long time ago. No reason to go over that ground again, especially after 30 years have gone by and Han has probably had many more opportunities to see that the Force is real.

You want to manufacture a major rift between the characters and to change them. I'm saying that we know that they love and care about one another and the filmmakers don't need to change that. There are too many new characters to meet and learn about. We shouldn't have to have Luke, Han, and Leia and their relationships with one another change so that we have to relearn about them too.

Of course it doesn't, but those Solos aren't Luke Skywalker's offspring. I want Luke to have a son/daughter too. Think about it: How would you like it if Daisy ended up being LUKE'S daughter (not that I think this will happen at all!) and Han and Leia had NO KIDS? Wouldn't YOU be disappointed? Wouldn't you miss having a Solo descendant to follow into future stories? I know that *I* would be very disappointed if there is no Luke Skywalker descendant to root for in future films and books. Therefore, I want Luke AND Han and Leia to have at least one kid each. The future would be sadder and poorer without a child of BOTH Luke and Leia, in my opinion.

Yep! And now he can have two GRANDCHILDREN, one a Solo and one a Skywalker in name and blood.

And I wouldn't mind if she was the main hero of the ST. But I'd still like a Skywalker son/daughter to have adventures with his Solo cousin in the future.

That too....

 

Which is exactly what I've said.

A great contribution? Like say, defeating the Empire, redeeming Anakin Skywalker, destroying the Death Star. And then...on screen in EP VII, help to create the 2 new orders/and hand the reins over to the next generation.

I'm not stuck at all actually. I think you may be inferring that. I'm saying, creating the new Jedi Order and New Republic is hard work. I'm saying that defeating a galaxy wide Empire in it's entirety, pushing back against whatever remnant Governors that control their systems still, random piracy, take a lot of time. Maybe just about 30 or so years. That's the progress. That's all the stuff that isn't quint important enough to warrant an episode. That's the stuff that happens in between the episodes. What is important, are the events that lead to the next Orders being set up and created. In much respect to the same jump in time between the first trilogies. Sure a lot of stuff happens in that 20 year period, but the story jumps because it's a continuing of the Saga story line. Same here.

I also believe that the New Jedi Order and New Republic are created at then end of EP IX because it structurally mirrors the other two trilogies, almost perfectly.

Your viewpoint is that somehow, these enormous tasks, which the OT has a hand in creating, are not important enough to show on screen. I believe otherwise.

Great. Let them. That will be fun. I'm glad Disney is in control of this stuff so far. And I think we actually agree here, with the exception of your desire to have the New Jedi Order magically just be in existence during the next episode.

Exactly. We should see progress. We shouldnt see completion, which in my mind is what you're asking for, in having both those Orders created pre-Ep VII. We don't know how much work it took to battle other Imperial remnants, enemies, what ever else came up. Having them do all of that...win over allllll of that...and Create a new Jedi Order and New Republic is, in my mind, too much. Your saying that in 30 years, they defeated all Imperial Remnants across the Galaxy, whatever else popped up, and then restored both Orders. Off Screen. Damn. I dunno about you, but that seems pretty interesting. Wonder why that's left out of the Saga Episode?

I don't think I've ever said, or implied 'passively' sit by and do nothing for 30 years. On the HUGE contrary, I'm actually saying the complete opposite. That in defeating back Imperials, and whatever else took place, lasted that period. And now, EP VII catches back up with those characters as they're about to complete their task, and as they're children take the reins and finalize it.

I don't know, other than...they contributed to the story being feating the Empire and redeeming Anakin. Why do you insist that they must also be the ones who also must bring about the NJO and NR by themselves. That...seems...like a lot.

Here's Luke's resume in your version:
19 BBY: Born. Secretly transported by Obi-wan to the worst place in Galaxy.
17 BBY - 1BBY: Farmboy, whiney punk
1BBY: Joins rebels. Accomplishments include blowing up the Death Star 1 week after employment. Kills 1m Imperials. Received medal of honor.
1ABY - 2ABY: General awesomeness while employed with Rebels. Fights. Some Jedi stuff.
3 ABY: Leads Rebels in battle on Hoth. Destroys ATAT all by himself.
Goes to Jedi School, taught by only the bestest Jedi ever, Yoda. Completes normal 5 year Jedi course in 2 week period.
Battles Darth Vader. Comes out in second place, despite emotional stress due to learning Mr. Number 2 Evil guy is also his dad.
4 ABY: Plans rescue of coolest guy in the galaxy, aka Han Solo. Kills gangster Jabba the Hut in the process.
Completes training with Yoda in 2 hours and learns about his sister.
Surrenders to Darth Vader and then proceeds to duel him in front of the Emperor.
Redeems Anakin Skywalker.
Escapes Death Star Explosion.
4 ABY - 5 ABY: Vacation.
6 ABY: Spent 2 weeks alone learning about the Force, but makes sure to tell Leia and Han about it. Doesn't want them to worry.
6 ABY - 7 ABY: Eliminates all remaining Imperial Bad Guys.
8 ABY: Dates gorgeous Red-Headed woman.
9 ABY: Marries Red-headed woman.
10 ABY-11 ABY: Trains 5 new Jedi apprentices at once.
12 ABY: Rents old Firehouse in run down Coruscant neighborhood and opens new Jedi Order Business.
13 ABY: Has Son.
14-19 ABY: Trains son, and makes all apprentices into Knights.
20 ABY: Buys used Jedi Temple at greatly reduced rate in stunning, luxurious Coruscant neighborhood. Has 18 Jedi Knights under his command. Trains his niece Jaina.
22 ABY: Helps his sister write a completely new galaxy-wide constitution. Entire Galaxy celebrates.
21 ABY: New Republic constitution is signed. Leia becomes queen of the Galaxy.
22 ABY: Successfully (all by himself) gets New Republic to ordain the New Jedi Order.
23 ABY - 34 ABY: Not much really happens. Begins to sense new evil presence in the Galaxy.
35 ABY: Some evil guy shows up. Darksiders, or something.
37 ABY: His first knight decides to Fall to the Darkside. His kids and nephews battle him multiple times.
38 ABY- 39 ABY: Turns 57 year old. Has surprise party. Everyone who's anyone is invited.
40 ABY: He defeats evil entirely. His kids help out, but mostly just get in the way. Receives multiple awards from the New Republic, which is totally awesome now.

Man. That's one awesome legacy. All I'm saying...is that very important "creating NJO and NR happens in the new Trilogy as the reward. You're saying that stuff, while important isn't important enough to warrant being in an episode, because Luke has more, even cooler, stuff to accomplish...all to maintain his legacy.

Haha. Wow. Umm. Where do you read that from me? I want them to contribute to the next Orders on screen, in the next trilogy. They do this by contributing to the events, fighting back the villains and passing the torch on to their children. In what sense, is their legacy diminished at all because those two orders are created at the end of this Trilogy, possibly after their deaths, possibly because those final on-screen actions galvanize the new generation to finally complete the long task. Do you really think for a minute, that if it's their children who finally pass the football across the line, that Luke and Co don't get credit? That they're suddenly forgotten. I can just see it now Daisy climbs up the steps on the new Jedi Temple Plaza and declares a new Jedi Order and then yells out.... "I did this. I did it all by myself. No one else helped me. Luke? Luke, who? Just me." End Credits.

Nope instead. At the end of the ST trilogy, the next Generation finally, finally create the new Orders. There's excitement, there's sadness over what it took to get there, and there's contemplation over who helped them. We see Daisy and Group, and pan over to see Ghost Luke looking on proud at what they finally got accomplished. End Credits.



Exactly. Like battling countless number of remnant systems. Giving birth to children. Going to daycare. Trying to set up an order but the pieces aren't quite in line yet, due to more fighting and the chaotic nature of the state of the Galaxy. That's a lot of stuff to miss. And it's a lot of progress.

Tv? Books? Nah...I want to see that story on screen as it deserves to be told.



I agree wholeheartedly. He sets out to do all of that. It takes longer than expected, or maybe exactly as long as Luke expects. And EP VII opens with those plans finally coming to fruition.

Um. For the very same reason as you. Only...I want to see that on screen, you know, just like his father destroyed it on screen.

You know...at the end of the day. It seems you and I are hoping for the same thing actually. I just want the creation of those Orders on screen, and important to the saga storyline. Not simply toss in the EU bin for later films, movies, tv, comics, whatever. I want to see Luke's and the next generation build that new Order. That's all their legacy![/quote]

 

DarkGingerJedi :

No, I respectfully disagree. You didn't say that. What you said was that you wanted to see the new generation restore the Jedi Order and the New republic as their "reward" at the end of Episode IX. It's my contention that the Jedi Order and the New republic should have already been started by Luke, Han, Leia, and company after RotJ. Now, should the Jedi Order be huge and flourishing by the time of Episode VII? Of course not, but it shouldn't be huge and flourishing at the END of Episode IX either.

And if they haven't started to restore the New Republic, was the galaxy in complete chaos between Episodes VI and VII? They needed to create some kind of a governing order. Why not start the New Republic?

You didn't say that the OT characters would help to create the two new orders in the ST in your earlier post, or at least it didn't seem that way to me. You seemed to say that the younger generation would. do that.

Two things here though:
1. How much do you think the filmmakers can possibly accomplish in 3 films? We will need to learn what has been happening in the galaxy for 30 plus years and where the OT characters are now. We will need to meet a lot of new heroes. There will likely be a major conflict in the films and some villains. The characters will need to deal with those things. . When will the filmmakers be able to sufficiently cover all of that AND the onscreen restoration of the Jedi Order and the New Republic?

2. If they couldn't start the restoration of the Jedi Order and the New Republic in the 30 or 35 years between RotJ and Episode VII, why do you think they would be able to restore both of them in the few years in-universe between Episode VII and IX... in addition to dealing with whatever problems are revealed in EpisodeVII?

Of course it is! That's why I'm expecting only a small Order by the time of Episode VII and a New Republic which is still undergoing growing pains. But it doesn't make any sense to me that the Big Three and their friends and colleagues wouldn't have started these two institutions within a 30 year period.

It's because it's hard work that I don't see how they can be created within the few years that the ST will involve.

I think it works just as well to say that there was a Jedi Order and and Old Republic in the PT; an Empire and no Jedi Order in the OT; and a NEW Jedi Order and a New Republic in the ST.

No, I think they're VERY important! I believe we WILL see them on screen someday either in a movie or TV series. They're so important though, that I want to see a fledgling Jedi Order and New republic in the ST.

It won't be by magic! It will be by the hard work of Luke and whatever Force sensitives he finds! I would think it would seem a lot more like "magic" if they can create a new republic and a New Jedi Order from scratch within three films and probably about 5 or so years in-universe.

How can it be "completion" to have about 18 Jedi when the PT Order had hundreds , maybe thousands???? 18 is a START. And I can't imagine that the people could exist without some kind of government for 30 years. So, I think they would have started a New Republic. There are probably still all kinds of disagreements and problems. It's a work in progress and will need lots of improvement.

And how can you say that there has been progress if there's NO Jedi Order in Episode VII and no government?

You're the one that said that the reward of the OT was defeating the Empire at the end of RotJ. I'm the one that said that they defeated the Emperor, but that the Empire might not have been defeated.

Started to restore the Republic and the Jedi Order between RotJ and Episode VII... there's a difference.

Maybe because that's not what the story of the ST will be? Maybe the ST will involve the fledgling Jedi Order and the Fledgling government joining forces against a terrible new force or villains that we don't yet know about?

The reward for whom and why? Don't you think Luke, Leia, and Han and their generation deserve a reward for all they had to endure and for all of the work they did to defeat the Empire? Shouldn't they get to have the lasting legacy of STARTING the Jedi Order and the New Republic? What did the younger generation do that THEY deserve a "reward" for????

As I understand it, Luke, Han, and Leia will only have their "last hurrah" in Episode VII, and you already seem to think that Luke will be mostly the destination and not really actively involved for mot of the film, so how does that show him "Contributing to the Orders"?

Again, WHY should the younger generation do in a few years what Luke, Leia, Han, and Company couldn't do in 30 to 35 years???? I also notice you mention Daisy and not any kids of Luke....

Well, that's not really what I want to see. Besides, if there's another trilogy after that, then what? Daisy will have done everything singlehandedly, creating the New Jedi Order and the New republic and there is perfect harmony in the galaxy forever and ever. What's left for the future?



We only saw part of that destruction onscreen.... Going after the survivors didn't happen in Episodes I- VI.

I want to see an active new Jedi Order onscreen. I don't need to see its creation. I don't need to watch an apprentice being trained. I've already seen Luke in training. I'd rather see the fledgling Jedi be USEFUL to the galaxy.

 

Don't believe everything you read on the Holonet, kid...

 

Well at least we don't have Supershadow anymore.

 

I´m starting to think that the third member of the trio is Adam Driver. On this Movieweb article, it is claimed that Boyega and Driver characters are connected somehow. I think that makes highly probable that both are Luke´s padawans, and that Driver turns evil during the movie. That would leave Boyega, Ridley and Driver as lead trio. With Driver leaving to the bad ones side, a vacant for lead would be open and I think it´s likely that perhaps Isac or Gleeson are one of the leads in the rest of the trilogy.

http://www.movieweb.com/news/star-wars-episode-vii-cast-and-character-breakdown