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PT Which side do you support in the Clone Wars?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Separatist101, Jun 15, 2014.

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Which side do you support in the Clone Wars

  1. Galactic Republic

    35 vote(s)
    60.3%
  2. Confederacy of Independent Systems

    23 vote(s)
    39.7%
  1. Separatist101

    Separatist101 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 11, 2010
    Who I support is obvious I think, the Republic Senate was highly corrupt by the time of the Separatist Crisis, many Senators were lining their own pockets and not doing what was best for the people, which was big part of why Dooku became disillusioned in the Republic, he set up the CIS to try rid the galaxy of the corruption of the Senate.

    Count Dooku told Padmé "The Republic cannot be fixed m'lady, it's time to start over.", the Senate was quickly descending into a corrupt, decrepit mess, which is a big reason to why many left to join the CIS.

    The CIS may not have been perfect, but at least they were taking a strong stand against corruption in the Republic, which most Republic people were either unaware off or wilfully ignorant to!

    I've noticed a lot of the Republic supporters are quite hypocritical, mostly because they've never met a non-military Separatist, or any Separatist at all, they call the CIS "Evil", when the Senate is plagued with corruption, and never see it from the Separatist viewpoint, the argument could be who is the real evil?

    Is the CIS the true "Evil", or could the real evil be the money-hungry, greedy, corrupt Senate denying the freedom of thousands of systems across the galaxy by military aggression, which denies them a voice because any diplomacy is not allowed for fear of "legitimising" the CIS?

    I will stop my pro-Separatist "rant" now, before I go off topic, but I was summarising why I support the CIS.
     
  2. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Moving to PT from Saga
     
  3. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I support the CIS.
     
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  4. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I'm a very cynical, apathetic person, and I generally don't support anyone or anything except that which is closest to me, and sometimes (oftentimes) I'd rather not even do that. Governments? Whatever, I just can't bring myself to care or get involved.

    So, I wouldn't support either the Republic or CIS and would just try to stay out of the way and, above all, survive.

    Many Senators, but especially those who were supporters of the CIS, like Lott Dodd. The greediest of the greediest and the most corrupt of the corrupt were pretty much all Separatists, which I find bizarre, but whatever.

    "Lining their own pockets and not doing what was best for the people". Sounds like what the US government has been doing for some time. But again, whatevs.

    I don't know if the Republic could not be fixed, since it's biggest problem seemed to be the people running it, ie Palpatine, and the people corrupting it, ie Palpatine and the Separatist corporations. I'd think you'd agree.

    What makes you think the Republic people were unaware or willfully ignorant? Do we see them at all in the PT? Do they have any meaningful power? I don't remember seeing any normal citizens going to the voting booths.

    They call the CIS evil because of the horribly evil acts the CIS committed during the Clone Wars, and those committed by the very same people before the Clone Wars, like during the Invasion of Naboo.

    The most evil, money hungry, greedy, corrupt people in the PT are at this table:
    [​IMG]

    However, I'm not too keen on the Republic Senators who got filthy rich by letting these people corrupt the government they were supposed to be serving.

    [​IMG]

    I suppose if I had a gun to my head and HAD to throw my lot in with some large group, I guess I'd throw it in with the Jedi.

    So yeah....count me in the "don't care, I have my own problems to worry about" group, right alongside Lando.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don't recall cheering for either side or thinking either side was more evil than the other.

    If Dooku actually thought he could get rid of the corruption in the Senate, he was an idiot.

    Padme was a bigger idiot for actually thinking she could make the system work for the "greater good."

    The only person with half a brain in the PT was Palpatine, who used the corruption in the Senate and played both the Republic and the CIS (oh, excuse me--ran both the Republic and the CIS) to get what he wanted for himself.

    Kind of pathetic when the Sith Master is the only character you can respect.

    I did LOL at all the attempts of TCW to first portray the Evil Seppies torturing people, then show "heroes on both sides" (somehow I think I was supposed to care, but I didn't), then all the outcry about how "the Jedi are corrupt!" Alrighty then. The Jedi were the only real victims in this whole cluster****.
     
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  6. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    For some. Personally, I think Dooku was really the only intelligent one in the PT.
     
  7. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    neither. both sides are corrupt.
     
  8. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Both sides were heavily corrupt, flawed, terribly unstable, and being controlled and manipulated by a Sith Lord.

    Sounds like bad luck to be on either side to me. lol
     
  9. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    the bad part (like in real life) is that there were many good people on both sides as well.
     
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  10. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Both sides were corrupt. However, in a scenario where Palpatine is running both sides, you go with the side that really has the best of the galaxy at heart. Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, even Padme, misled though her dear heart was...they really all did care about the good of the galaxy and its people. Nute Gunray, San Hill, Shu Mai, they were just in it for the money; they wanted freer trade for their organizations so they could pocket the difference or whatever. Not saying the Republic was spotless–most of the Senators that weren't in the Delegation of 2000 were probably insanely corrupt, I'm sure–but as for the Seps, we're never shown (in the films, at least) a "good" member of the Separatist Council. They're all just greedy, self-serving businessmen.
     
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  11. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Considering that Palpatine was in charge of both the Republic and the CIS, and the entire war was a sham, there aren't really any "sides" to speak of. It's just Palpatine manipulating events so that the Jedi can be eliminated and he can install himself as Emperor.
     
  12. Jesse Booth

    Jesse Booth Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Separatists. I'll take openly greedy businessmen over self-serving, two-faced politicians any day of the week. If you show ability and talent for the business you are working for, you will be rewarded for your efforts. With politicians, whoever will sell out their morals the fastest does the best.

    Also, when the hell did being a businessman become the mark of evil? I hated that the PT portrayed people wanting independence from a broken, corrupt system of oppressive government as evil. I've always believed that businessmen are the real world badasses. Businessmen gamble with their own livelihoods to make products that the rest of us enjoy. For example, Star Wars.
     
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  13. Lord Chazza

    Lord Chazza Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2013
    • The Republic was a democracy, subverted by self interest.
    • The CIS was a plutocracy, formed by self interest.
    I'll take the former.
     
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  14. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Yes, if there's anyone I want to be governed by, it's Wal-Mart with a massive army of machines and no laws to hold them back. Wal-Mart is well-known for taking good care of its employees and the areas in which they expand.

    I'm not sure it was about being a businessman or simply wanting independence. It might have been because of this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    I find it disconcerting that you could make this comment in a thread discussing businessmen the likes of Nute Gunray.

    It seems more and more common (and devastating) for real world badass businessmen to gamble with the livelihoods of others.
     
  15. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    The Galactic Republic
     
  16. Bardan_Jusik

    Bardan_Jusik Former Manager star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Whichever side paid better, and I wouldn't be adverse to switching sides to get a better contract.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    The Republic. They may not be perfect, but at least they don't force me to follow their laws with battle droids pointing their blasters at me.
     
  18. bstnsx704

    bstnsx704 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2013
    The whole point of the Clone Wars is that we, as an audience, aren't really supposed to choose sides once we realize the truth behind the war. "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere." There are men and women with good intentions thinking they are doing the right thing on either end, and Palpatine is sitting in the middle planning and scheming like it is all one big game of chess. He moves his pieces and, at the end of the day, he gets everything he wants.
     
  19. Jesse Booth

    Jesse Booth Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2014

    I may have been in a bit of a rage when I posted that. I'd just come back from a political forum, and there'd been a huge argument between me and this one socialist jackass. The moderators deleted the entire thread because of us, and the other guy has a temporary ban now. It's a long story, and I don't want to bore anybody.

    Anyway, I wasn't defending the likes of the Trade Federation scum (who happen to be fictional characters, not real businessmen). I still had some crap about an 80% tax on incomes above 75,000 a year stuck in my head, and some nutjob conspiracy theory about Al Qaeda being a ploy by gas companies to take control of oil deposits in the Middle East.
     
  20. Jesse Booth

    Jesse Booth Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Actually, the Republic was a republic. When people elect other people to vote for them, in the interest of saving time, that's a republic. Also, the name's a dead giveaway.
     
  21. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    In general, the reformist bent of the CIS is to be admired. Adherence to a stagnant status quo out of tradition is somewhat pathetic. However, self-serving elites who rebel over the curtailing of their power are worse. Then there are those who respond to every perceived threat with violent aggression, who are more contemptible than the prior groups. You find this latter group on both sides of the Clone Wars.

    There are heroes on both sides and evil is everywhere, so I abstain from this vote. At a push, I'd go with the Republic, but I'd feel guilty about fighting the CIS. Even the oligarchs of the CIS are fighting for something that some people can justifiably support. The massacre of the CIS leaders during the Declaration of the New Order is a tragic moment for the SW galaxy. Political pluralism dies with them, so even if they're callous, exploitative warmongerers, the GFFA becomes a bleaker place without them. Darth Vader creates a desolation and calls it peace.

    No, that's a representative, as opposed to direct, democracy. A republic is any government over which the people have (notional) sovereignty, even if it isn't actually a democracy. The Galactic Republic isn't the most direct of democracies, what with the (elected) executive leaders of Naboo appointing senators rather than there being elections to the office of senator. Padme Amidala and Palpatine are appointed like EU Commissioners but their job is more like that of an MEP. The representation in the Senate is fairly asymmetric. Interstellar cartels like the Trade Federation have representation, and so do sub-entities of the same planet like the Gungans of Naboo.

    Perhaps that's the system that works for a galaxy-spanning entity like the Galactic Republic. It does last for a millennium without collapsing in on itself. However, by the time of the PT, it has lost the ability to self-correct. Rome went through similar periods of stagnation, such as in the final years of the Roman Republic. That's a sign that change is needed, and both the CIS and later the Empire demonstrate alternatives to the old ways. Not that they're necessarily any good, but they are alternatives, and at least the CIS oligarchy - where political power is generally distributed, even if the leadership have an informal alliance with the Sith - seems better than the Imperial autocracy.
     
  22. Lord Chazza

    Lord Chazza Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Yeah thanks for that. Really, I don't need the blindingly obvious being thrown into my face. I think by post was crystal clear in its meaning.

    I agreed with most of your post but wasn't sure about this bit. Firstly, the very top of the CIS leadership ARE Sith. Secondly, what evidence is there that power is generally distributed? It's stuck in the hands of Darth Sidious, Count Dooku and the heads of galactic big business. There would seem to be no way of replacing these leaders or holding them accountable.
     
  23. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    the trade federation, banking clan, etc, had a stranglehold on the galaxies finances. they had a "taxation without representation" standpoint and did whatever nefarious things they were told if they were paid enough. they were in no way innocent.

    off topic, why does everyone have to get so snarky online?
     
  24. Jesse Booth

    Jesse Booth Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2014
    If I remember correctly, in TCW the Separatists had a system quite similar to the senate in a few episodes. People that didn't agree with Dooku had an unusual tendency of getting assassinated, but still...

    In business, when a leader is incompetent, either they get replaced or their business goes under, unless they can bribe a politician into bailing them out with taxpayer money. However, this probably wouldn't happen in a government where every politician is in competition with that failing businessman.

    With the individual systems and planets that joined the Separatists, the people still voted them into and out of office.

    On another note, a lot of people have cited the droid army as being evil. In my opinion, building your own cannon fodder seems much less immoral than breeding an army of slave soldiers to fight your war. I always felt sorry for the clones, even when they betrayed the Jedi. They only did so because the Kaminoans did something to their brains that made them blindly loyal to whoever was leading the Republic at the time.
     
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  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    This thread is going to go in the ****ter really quickly if real-world politics is brought into it. There are Senate Floor threads for that.

    As far as droids vs. clones and which one is "more evil"...they were both created for the same purpose, to score victories for their side. I wouldn't call either one "evil".

    And arguing over whether the leadership that created the droids is more evil than the leadership that created the clones is rather pointless. Is Palpatine more evil than Palpatine?
     
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