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Amph Who could beat Batman?

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Panther50, Mar 29, 2007.

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  1. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 7, 2004
    Now I'm not talking about anyone with special powers, what I'm curious about is given his skill in hand to hand combat are there any regular humans like Batman himself who could beat him in a fair fight.
     
  2. StarscreamPrime

    StarscreamPrime Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Dec 9, 2006
    I'd say Bruce Lee would honestly give Batman a run for his money in straight hand-to-hand combat skills. Plus, I also would want to mention Sonny Chiba, since... well, he's Sonny Chiba! That says it all!
     
  3. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 7, 2004
    You'll have to excuse my ignorance, who's Sonny Chiba?
     
  4. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 18, 2001
    Does Batman have time to prepare?
     
  5. Sn4tcH

    Sn4tcH Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 22, 2004
    If the answer is yes, then nobody.
     
  6. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 7, 2004
    Well I'd give you to options, one he does have a little time to prepare, two a spontanious fight with no preparation time.
     
  7. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Jul 10, 2004
    Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain, Richard Dragon all give him a good run. Though Iron Fist does have one special power, I think he'd be close to Batman without it.
     
  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Yes, those are among the elite. Along with Captain America, Bane without venom, Prometheus, Shang-Chi, Green Arrow Connor Hawke, Deathstroke, Rose, Jericho, KGBeast, Red Hood Jason Todd and Damian. Daredevil and Bullseye as well.
     
  9. Raven

    Raven Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 5, 1998

    In the DCU, Richard Dragon has said that only he and maybe Lady Shiva among non-enhanced humans are better than Batman at 1v1 hand-to-hand combat; that was said while he was training the Question (the original one), and so Cassandra Cain would not be on that list (but should be). Having said that: Batman has beaten Shiva at 1v1 hand-to-hand combat; a well-rested, properly motivated Batman can probably be said to be the second best hand-to-hand fighter in the DCU in a fair fight. In the JLA/Avengers crossover, Batman and Captain America are reasonably evenly matched, with Batman believing that he had a clear edge.

    Batman doesn't fight fair. Robin (Tim Drake) is the same - he's beaten Cassandra Cain on at least two occaisions, because like his mentor, he doesn't fight fair. Given sufficient time to prepare, having the top tactical mind in the world and being an all around polymath, having allies who are similarly gifted, and having access to the world's foremost technological firm (Waynetech, powerful enough to buy out Luthor Industries...), Batman can almost certainly arrange for the defeat of any threat.

    As Superman says, "the most dangerous man in the world..."
     
  10. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Well, Richard Dragon has yet to fight Cassandra Cain, I think. I'm sure if he had, he'd change his tune. David Cain hasn't beaten Batman, but gave him a good fight in their first encounter. The next two times he was drunk. Cain, not Wayne. Shiva has the same set of skills that Batman does, but she's willing to kill which makes her very effective. Black Canary has trained under Shiva in "Birds Of Prey", so Dinah should be a lot better than she used to be.
     
  11. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 7, 2004
    Theres some interesting names mentioned, but I do wonder about eligibility of some:
    Captain America is he still a baseline human or does he have enhanced strength and agility due to the process he went through and if he does, then hes shouldn't really be eligible as he has powers beyond the normal human.
    Deathstroke Didn't He have something done which allows him to use 100% of brain and wouldn't that give him powers beyond a normal human.
    I also see Rose and Jericho mentioned and I'm assuming they're Deathstrokes children and don't they both have metahuman powers.
     
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    The Super Soldier formula just made Captain America into the same type of shape Bruce Wayne is. However, when the formula was extracted, Rogers worked to get into the same shape that he had been before. When they've fought in "DC vs Marvel", "Batman & Captain America" and
    "JLA vs Avengers", they're both equal in terms of strength and skill. A fight would take forever before a clear victor emerged. Without chance getting in the way.

    Slade Wilson did have his brain tweaked so that he can use 90% of it. Not Rose and Jericho, his children, do have abilities. But if you just have them rely on their hand to hand skills, they should be capable of keeping up with him. Nightwing helped train Rose, prior to the second Crisis.
     
  13. Six_Foot_Yoda

    Six_Foot_Yoda Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 31, 2007
    Well, if Batman knew that a fight was coming, he could prepare and win. But, if it was unprecidented and random then it depends on who it actually was. FOR EXAMPLE: Hulk angry... Hulk go to Gotham... Hulk attack Batman... Hulk kill puny little flyer thing with wings... Hulk belly full... MMmmm airborn rodent...


    Taller version OUT!
     
  14. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 7, 2004
    Interesting example, but The Hulk is far to powerful for this scenario. I'm really only considering normal people or thier equilavents, for example could one of the Ninja Turtles take out Batman in a fight. Personally I'd say no, but if any of them could do it maybe Leonardo has the best shot.
     
  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Which Hulk persona are we talking about. He's got about three.

    The Turtles are each good in their own right. But unless they know all the styles Batman does, they're going to get their asses kicked like they did against Shreddar. Leo would be a tough one, since he's well disciplined and he has the swords. But Batman has Batarangs that can serve as a stand-in for a sword.
     
  16. Raven

    Raven Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 5, 1998

    Batman vs. Hulk has been done, believe it or not...


    Anyhow, as an example of "Batman always wins", take his encounter with Darkseid in Superman/Batman. Darkseid is pretty much the most powerful villain in the DCU. Through a matter of careful planning and such, Batman was able to walk into Darkseid's throneroom and dictate terms. Yes, Darkseid is powerful enough to kill Batman just by looking at him. Didn't matter. Batman won.
     
  17. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 7, 2004
    I'm not a big reader of the Hulk. I only know about the basic dumb green model, I don't know how many other versions there are out there. But in this scenario surely any of the versions would to be to powerful to make this a fair fight.
     
  18. GavinStrife

    GavinStrife Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 15, 2005
    The freshly-trained Green Arrow took down Deathstroke, something Batman could only do on his best day, so I think ol' Ollie could give him a good fight.
     
  19. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    There's the Savage Hulk that you know of. Batman defeated him in "Batman vs The Incredible Hulk", but using a powerful sedative gas, then hit him in the gut as he was inhaling to hold his breath. There's the Gray Hulk who isn't as strong as his Savage counterpart. His weakness is that he only comes out at night. So artificial solar light would trigger a reversal. Hulk-Prime which was the very first Hulk until the Savage persona debuted. He's a tough nut to crack. But Captain America gave hell to the Merged Hulk, which was Bruce Banner controlling the Hulks, so Batman could hold his own.

    Batman has beaten Deathstroke twice. First by using Slade's own rifle as a club and then working with his "sons". Both Batman and Ollie have lost to Slade, with Ollie losing twice.
     
  20. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 18, 2001
    This is an example of Batman cheating. Because thats what he does. He had the time to set up the scales to his favor. In a straight up brawl most superheroes would tear him apart if they were going for a kill, but Batman has such a force of will that he can and will threaten the entire planet to win.
     
  21. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Jul 10, 2004
    Exactly. Batman always wins because he never walks into a situation without a plan. But if Superman really wanted to kill Bruce, he could do it. Fly past at the speed of light and smash him into goo.
     
  22. GavinStrife

    GavinStrife Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 15, 2005
    I didn't say Ollie would win flat-out, I just said that he would give him a good fight. Who knows, with those two, it could go either way... I remember in Identity Crisis where Slade held off a whole friggin group of heroes, a Flash included. Maybe he's losing his touch...
     
  23. Raven

    Raven Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 5, 1998
     
  24. Darth-Lando

    Darth-Lando Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Aug 12, 2002
    Two words:

    Ultimate. Hawkeye.

    All he needs are his own fingernails.
     
  25. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    I have to say, "Huh?"
     
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