Who did John Williams take influence from?

As I have received many of these ideas (which I agree with completely) I am changing the name of this thread.
Thank you for speaking up about this issue.

 

I always thought the lyrical similirity of part of Jaws' theme (not the classic dun-dun part but further in) was copied almost note for note for Michael Jackson's song from the Dangerous album, "Heal the World".

Note the tune that starts right around 1:03:



Now compare that to this later song at the 1:08 mark:

 

And how are you doing this?

 

One answer.

HOLST.

 

So I'm listening to classical music on CBC today and the announcer talks about how great composers are always stealing music: it's how well they do it that demonstrates a composer's genius. Case in point, JW's music from ET, compared to the last movement of Howard Hanson's Symphony no. 2.

 

Minor title change to sound less negative

 

I think this is absolutely true, especially for A New Hope. I am pretty sure I remember Williams himself talking about using Holst's The Planets as inspiration for the Star Wars music. Mars uses a rhythm where the violin bows wooden sides are tapped on the strings. The ANH Imperial Motif doesn't use the same playing technique, but does employ similar use of a percussive rhythm to help denote evil/war. Influence of Venus can also be heard in Leia's theme.

 

I'd say Jupiter could have influenced the main theme/Luke's theme, though not as directly as Mars and Venus did to the Imp theme and Leia's.

 

No mention of Wagner? Yoda's theme is reminiscent of the Magic Fire motif, at least to me.

 

I think he may have pulled the whole ending crescendo with symphony and timpani moment from Saint Saens. I went to a concert at the National Cathedral to hear Saint Saens' Organ Concert # 3 (aka the theme from 1995's babe.) Listen and decide. It's a great piece to sample in my opinion.

 

Williams himself also credits Wagner for quite a bit, including the idea of Leitmotif that he uses in his film scores.

 

lets see...

Wagner, Korngold... Holst..Dvorak.. few others im sure

 

Mozart maybe?

 

Of course, I could see Mozart.. Even Beethoven to be honest

 

Has anyone said Mahler? I can hear some Mahler in there.

 

Can someone give me an example of Mozart? I'm not so sure about that one...

 

Some tongue and cheek references maybe but Williams' primary influences seem to come from the later eras with Holst, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, etc.

 

Maybe some of his more dramatic operatic stuff, like Don Giovanni?

 

lol

 

After the last Oxygen we have this mock-ups of Adagio for Strings for The Immolation Scene:

 

The sad motif and Kylo's more bombastic motif which follows it (overcompensating?) are probably about as Wagnerian as anything in Williams Star Wars to date.

 

Possibly. Howard Hand what are your thoughts on this?

 

From the realm of earlier Hollywood:
-Erich Wolfgang Korngold
-Bernard Herrmann
-Miklos Rozsa (see 1952 Ivanhoe)

 

Regarding the Cantina band's music

I have a strong feeling that John Williams was partly inspired by by the music of Raymond Scott. A jazz band leader, and later an electronic music pioneer, that Williams father played drums for.

Raymond Scott's particular style was what you might almost call "novelty jazz". It took licks and varied them throughout the arrangement so that they almost sound improvised in the jazz idiom, but it was very carefully planned out to keep to a quite rigid progression in a swing feel. The results were kind of crazy sounding but always tight.

This music later became the foundation for much of the score that Carl Stalling arranged for the Golden period of Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies cartoons in the 1930s and 1940s.

One or two tracks from Raymond Scott at that time did have a sort of two part structure, with a fast part alternating with a slightly less fast part.

The most famous example of this kind of arrangement, both on its own AND in the form it was used in for many, many cartoon chase or factory conveyor belt scenes is Powerhouse.


Here is a video of the Raymond Scott Quintette, featuring John Williams' father "Johnny", playing Powerhouse on TV sometime in the fifties.




Check out Raymond's album Reckless Nights & Turkish Twilights to hear more music that could conceivably been played by the modal nodes, .(Huckelberry Duck,The Penguin, Minuet In Jazz) , and to hear a few tunes that you may remember from the cartoons (Powerhouse and In An Eighteenth Century Drawing Room)

 

Usually when filmmakers are cutting their movies they'll spot in temp music. What often happens is that the filmmakers fall victim to "temp love" whereby they've grown so accustomed to the temporary track they have a hard time parting with it. So the composers have to strike a balance between doing something original while at the same time making it easier for the director to let go of the temp track.