PT Who Doesn't Hate Jar Jar anymore?..

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by lightsaver, Jan 19, 2005.

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  1. grakogator Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2003
    star 2
    I'm OK with Jar Jar and there are some scenes in TPM where he really is great.

    When Amidala is watching the sunset on Coruscant he blends in with the mood perfectly....there are others I just can't be assed going through 'em.

    He's an intense charachter and I would'nt mind sitting down with him for a conversation......but would probably have to leave the room after 10 minutes or so due to a mentally niggling pain in my skull!
  2. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    Good lord, I'm on Gomer's side in this thread (minus the generalizing and condescension to other fans).

    And this thread is specific to Jar Jar in TPM, correct? OK, because his AOTC appearance was unnecessary, distracting, detrimental to the greater story and poor poor blatant catering to anti-JarJarites. But in TPM - he is perfect.

    As to TPM, he's a great character and his role serves a lot of different purposes symbolically. One, as the Campbellian herald, the frog, "the start of the adventure" or in the form of the Tarot, as "The Fool" which also represents the start of the adventure.

    He is at the heart of the resolution of terms between the Gungans and Naboo - and by all forms of practicality - represents the symbionce theme in a very literal way. That only by coming together can we truly succeed in the Galaxy. (Very ironic considering TPM and his character helped split the SW fan base apart.)

    And last, for god sake, he has a personality. Who has a personality in this flick besides he and Watto? Lucas chose to keep his characters "officious, pretentious and socially stiff" - for better or worse. And Jar Jar is the ONE thing and character in this who speaks out of line, out of turn and is just plain human.

    And last, he makes me chuckle. Puke sometimes too, but also, chuckle.


    ----

    Adding, I do believe Jar Jar is one of the few accurate examples of "fashionable bashing" and "conspiracy." Too often on these boards, this is used as a "crutch" excuse against people who criticize Lucas to the point of ludicrousy. But Jar Jar warrants this assessment, IMO. Buck the trend and be open minded. He works in several ways, though I see how some hate him.
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Not to go on an AOTC tangent, but Jar-Jar was used for the role he was born to play in AOTC.

    Lucas doesn't cater to the anti Jar-Jar crowd, in fact he flatly says he can't please those people in interview after interview.
  4. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    Lucas says all kinds of junk, that doesn't make it true. Welcome to propaganda and reality, Gomer.

    And no, the role he was BORN to play was TPM. As to AOTC, see previous statement and different thread.
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I don't see any reason to discount what he says. He has yet to be proven dishonest.

    Of course, your rampant speculation about Lucas' "true" motives, I don't put as much stock in. It's not that I assume you are being dishonest, it's because I know you aren't Lucas.
  6. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Jar Jar's role is a small one, except for in TPM, where he had to be the main comic relief, since Threepio was hardly in it.
    In AOTC, he has the role he was always meant to have.



    Personality is the key to art
    /LM
  7. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    Whatever works for you, Mr. G. Tonic.

    But hey - I'm sure you may or may not believe everything everyone ever tells you - Weapons of Mass Destruction, Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, Lucas is only reason for the success of Star Wars, Vader is a weak pansy, the original films were half finished, Clinton didn't inhale, and O.J. was innocent.

    Given my paid profession is in PR, I tend to take things with a grain of salt - and basic understanding that anything so subjective gets a response which best suits the person giving the answer with no fear of legal recourse or possible means of being proven differently.

    Lucas stands to gain untold fortunes in ticket sales, merchandise and businesses and is held before public scrutiny. I stand to gain nothing. So decide for yourself.

  8. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Ok, heading of political debate by disallowing a response to Hudnall's weapons of mass destruction comment...

    Agree with Go-Mer on use of JJB in AOTC.

    Disagree with Go-Mer/Hudnall in JJB use in TPM. I was willing to take him for what he was all the way through the movie and just accept it, until the final battle. He ruined what could have been an exciting and entertaining showdown, and GL also missed a golden opertunity to have JJB do something heroic in that scene.
  9. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    I don't see how he ruined it, Stryphe. He's the "The Fool."

    The Fool: Divinatory meaning of the Major Arcana Card
    Upright - Beginnings, most probably of journeys which may be possibly mental, physical or spiritual. The beginning of a new life-cycle. Energy, force, happiness and optimism. The overturning of the status quo or existing states by unexpected happenings. Innocence, naivety, and spontaneity as well as thoughtlessness, rashness.


    Most of his "heroic" acts in the final battle meet that description to a T. Someone bumbling along on an adventure in complete naivety whose actions along the journey unexpectedly turn the tide.
  10. BrotherTheFirst Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2005
    star 1
    Was anyone surprised JJ continued to make a fool of himself during the battle (TPM)? This indeed could have been his shining moment. But no. More foolish antics.

    note: I seem to remember a lot of falling, tripping and a crushed crotch gag after landing on the barrel of an attacking tank. Ugh. No tides turning.

    edit: I did like JJ and his part in AOTC. Just don't get me started on the whole 3PO and the misplaced head fiasco.
  11. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    There are a couple of shots with Jar-Jar getting hit in the nuts (the other one I recall is from the pit droid he is messing around with in Watto's shop), I would think that people who don't enjoy his character would at least enjoy those bits.

    I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until they have been proven dishonest. Lucas so far seems to buck the Hollywood trend of saying what they think people want to hear, and actually just lays it out as he sees it. At least that's how it seems to me.

    He doesn't need to worry about sales like the Hollywood beancounters do, and unlike most Hollywood bean counters, he actually knows how to make a good film, so he doesn't have to cover himself with a bunch of spin.

    Take the recent doc on the classic trilogy DVD set. He had people on there like Harrison Ford, talking about how Lucas isn't very good with actors.

    Does that sound like a guy obsessed with self image?
  12. BrotherTheFirst Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2005
    star 1
    Agreed. Lucas does seem in all respects to be a straight shooter.
  13. MrC123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2004
    star 4
    Earlier in the thread people were talking about Jar Jar giving Palps power, but all I have to say is, if the Sith could control the Jedi, does anyone really think poor Jar Jar has a chance?

    On a side note, back when TPM first came out, one of the funniest things I had seen was a Letterman skit. The skit was Dave at a barbeque with Paul Schaffer, and Paul said, "God, what is that smell?" And Dave lifts the grill's lid and says, "It's Jar-Jar," and there's poor Jar-Jar's head getting cooked!

    Again, love bashing him, but always liked the crazy Gungan.
  14. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    [face_laugh] I love Letterman jokes!

    I just went on a quest to find the official Jar Jar thread and I found it! Now we can move the discussion there :)



    Xeltek, 1981-2005 - rest in peace @};-
    /LM
  15. Snork Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2005
    star 1
    I don?t hate him any more, actually I feel sorry for him.
  16. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I don't see how he ruined it, Stryphe. He's the "The Fool."

    Exactly. It was turned into a fools battle instead of a grand stand-off, which is what it should have been.
  17. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It was a fool in the middle of a grand stand off. What's really cool is if you can get past Jar-Jar for a moment, there is a lot of interesting, heroic stuff going on around him.
  18. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    "The Fool" is in the middle of the grand stand off - and that, in and of itself, is acceptable. The problem lies in that "The Fool's" antics aren't offset by a compelling space battle or Anakin being a good pilot. Instead, Anakin is just another fool out there and the space battle element stinks. Padme fighting those ridiculous droids doesn't help much either. The Neimoidians cowering in bad accents further degrates it. Leaving the only good heavy part to balance out all the cheeze - the Duel.

    TPM is an abject lesson in poor balance. I tend to think kiddie stuff and silliness is OK, but that has to be balanced by a strong antagonist which TPM lacks. So the silliness overweights the film and audiences are put off as a result.

    But, Jar Jar actually does what he is supposed to. He singlehandedly takes out a group of droids and a droideka (which even the Jedi don't do) completely by his bumbling. And then, he takes out a tank - again by bumbling. As "The Fool", Jar Jar works and is perhaps one of the more brilliant aspects of this film.
  19. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    >>>Jar-Jar was an innocent pawn manipulated by a master strategist.<<<

    That's why you don't put people into power who can easily be manipulated. Of all the people that Palpy controlled in the Senate, the only one he could get to propose the motion was Jar Jar. Buy him a beer? He should be removed from office before he can be manipulated into more insane actions.
  20. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    The entire senate also thought it was a good idea at the time. Perhaps they should be disolved.

    -check.
  21. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Manipulating the Senate is one thing, manipulating an imbecile is another. It's not that hard to trick Jar Jar, so it's not really that much of an achievement. Now if he'd manipulated someone that can be taken seriously, like Bail Organa or Mon Mothma, had she been introduced, that would be different. They'd be cunning political minds that were led astray by someone brilliant. As it is, Palpatine didn't manipulate another worthy political adversary, but rather someone who literally can't walk without falling over himself. They might as well put a Youngling in Jar Jar's place, that wouldn't be a big achievement for Palpatine, but it'd be just as embarrassing.
  22. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    He manipulated both Jar-Jar and the entire senate.
  23. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    fools battle

    Or a diversion? ;)

    He manipulated both Jar-Jar and the entire senate.

    Jar Jar proposes, the Senate approves. No objection, so....[face_devil]






  24. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    I don't hate Jar Jar. I don't buy into the idea that he's a racial stereotype. I dislike his character, but that's mostly because I'm not a fan of buffoon characters (Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau notwithstanding). I'd go so far as to say that I have no patience for Jar Jar, but at least he is a well fleshed out character.
  25. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    It was a fool in the middle of a grand stand off.

    But all you saw was the fool in the battle.
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