PT Who Doesn't Hate Jar Jar anymore?..

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by lightsaver, Jan 19, 2005.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    No, I saw all the heroism going on around him as well.

    Perhaps you only saw Jar-Jar.
  2. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    The fact that Jar Jar is being manipulated and that he will probably become disillusioned and sad later on makes him a tragic character. Especially since he is so happy and carefree in the beginning of the story. Too bad you bullies can't see that.



    Star Wars is a saga
    Watch and believe

    /LM
  3. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
  4. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I refer to those who constantly mock Jar Jar by calling him imbecil and such. Just an observation, nothing to take personally.



    Xeltek, 1981-2005 - rest in peace @};-
    /LM
  5. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    >>>The entire senate also thought it was a good idea at the time. Perhaps they should be disolved.<<<

    All we see is a number of Palpy's friends applauding. We don't know whether that means they like the idea or Palpy or anything. The fact remains that Palpy couldn't get ANYONE else to make the motion except for Jar Jar. That demonstrates the weakness in Palpy's efforts to undermine the Senate.

    And anyone that votes to give the Chancellor emergency powers to raise a military and use it at will SHOULD be removed from office. Jar Jar could have made a motion to create a dept. of defense and enlisted the combined military strength of all the systems. Or, they could have still used the clone army but under the direction of the Senate and military advisors not under the direct control of the Chancellor. Or, they could have put the clone army under the authority of the Jedi. Surely, any planet having experienced a "Hitler" scenario would have been smart enough to see through such a ridiculous scheme.

    Really, there are many reasonable and logical things that could have been done short of giving dictatorial powers to the Chancellor. Jar Jar was just too stupid to figure out something that basic and propose the right motion. Yes, he should have been removed from office as an incompetent fool unworthy of the post of Senator.

    --check--

  6. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    ...or maybe Jar Jar cared too much about his friends to wait until the Separatists attacked the Republic before the Senate would allow the Clone Army to be deployed.

    BTW: There had been numerous cruel dictators in our world prior to the 1900s and yet, Hitler could rise to power.
    One thing we can learn from history is that we never learn from history.



    Star Wars is six, two and one
    /LM
  7. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If all the senators went along with Jar-Jar's motion, then what makes Jar-Jar any more gullible?
  8. HanSolOKniser3 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 4
    The novelization makes it seem as though Palps needed the representative of Naboo, specifically, to propose to give him emergency powers in order to sway the anti-military creation act/pro-Amidala senators to vote to give him said powers.

    Or something like that.

    [face_peace] :D [face_monkey]
  9. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    >>>If all the senators went along with Jar-Jar's motion, then what makes Jar-Jar any more gullible?<<<

    What makes you think that ALL the Senators voted for this motion? For all we know, it could have won by a single vote.

    As for the novelization, what statement can you point to that indicates that it had to be Jar Jar to make the motion in order for the plot to work?
  10. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Coulda, woulda, shoulda....
    The story is what the story is. You will have to accept the fact that Jar Jar happened to be the one. He's a major character in Star Wars, so he should be involved. Not his fault that you don't like him.



    Star Wars is six, two and one
    /LM
  11. HanSolOKniser3 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 4
    TrueJedi:

    From the HC AOTC novelization, Page 312:

    "If anyone other than a Representative of Naboo, a voice speaking for Amidala, had suggested such a drastic measure, then the debate would never have been so cleanly decided."

    For what it's worth...

    [face_peace] :D [face_monkey]
  12. Eddie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2001
    star 3
    I remember the first time I saw TPM I didn't dislike Jar Jar although I found it difficult to understand what he was saying. Perhaps people who only saw the film once would not have followed what was happening in his scenes, hence the backlash. I agree, the more you watch the movie the better it gets.
  13. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    Coulda, woulda, shoulda....
    The story is what the story is. You will have to accept the fact that Jar Jar happened to be the one.


    I have accepted the fact that JJ was the one, what makes you think I don't accept it?


    He's a major character in Star Wars, so he should be involved. Not his fault that you don't like him.

    Who says I don't like him? To borrow a line, "you assume too much". I just think he's an easily manipulated idiot that made the motion that helped destroy the Republic. He never should have been Senator because he's incompetent.


    From the HC AOTC novelization, Page 312:

    "If anyone other than a Representative of Naboo, a voice speaking for Amidala, had suggested such a drastic measure, then the debate would never have been so cleanly decided."


    "Cleanly" is the key word. It would still have gone in Palpy's favor but it would have been a bit more difficult to get done. No big deal. Thanks for the quote.

  14. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    You certainly don't give off the impression that you do like him, TrueJedi. Tell me(out of curiosity, I won't start a debate): Do you like him?

    EDIT: Forget it, I think your above post gave me a clear picture of what you think of him :)



    Star Wars is a saga
    Watch and believe

    /LM
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    So in your estimation True Jedi, at least a majority of the senate are also easily manipulated, incompetant iditiots?
  16. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    You certainly don't give off the impression that you do like him, TrueJedi. Tell me(out of curiosity, I won't start a debate): Do you like him?

    I don't hate him. I'm really apathetic towards him. Yes, he's incompetent and a complete fool but that's the way Lucas wanted us to view him.
  17. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I think he's a cool guy. A kind person with the mind of a child(at least in TPM). I believe that's the way Lucas portrays him.
    We're both entitled to our own views, though.



    Star Wars is a saga
    Watch and believe

    /LM
  18. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    So in your estimation True Jedi, at least a majority of the senate are also easily manipulated, incompetant iditiots?

    At least a majority of the Senators are willing to vote for a motion that a Senator from Naboo proposed. Are they idiots? There's no way of knowing. Some may be working with Palpy and others have a great respect for any Senator from Naboo. Was the motion stupid? Absolutely. How can anyone of average intelligence be so dumb as to give the Chancellor unlimited emergency powers to use a military as he sees fit without any checks and balances?

    The difference between all the Senators who voted for this insane motion and Jar Jar, is that Jar Jar was the one stupid enough to actually draft the motion.

    The reality is that Jar Jar should be held accountable for the motion he made and how it led to the end of the Republic. In Ancient Greece, such orators were persuasive enough to take the country from Democracy to tyranny. Jar Jar is the newest member in the company of such pied pipers of tyranny.

    As I said before, this is how Lucas obviously wants us to see Jar Jar and his actions.
  19. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    A kind person with the mind of a child(at least in TPM).

    That's the very definition of someone who is mentally retarded. The crazy part of this is that they made him a Senator, representing millions of people.

  20. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I didn't mean it like that. In TPM, he looks at the world with the innocent eyes of a child. He also behaves very much like a child.
    In AOTC, though, it's been ten years and he's grown to view the world differently. He's seen much more of the galaxy and has another kind of perspective on things. With experience comes insight.
    In AOTC, he actually strikes me as a much more adult thinker. He behaves like the others this time around, even though he still speaks in his own manner. Maybe it's his voice and way of speaking that fools you into thinking he is stupid.



    Personality is the key to art
    /LM
  21. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    I think Lucas is sending us a message here about following the fool. "Who is most foolish, the fool or the one who follows him?"

    It is the fool who sets the stage for the destruction of the Republic. Lucas is warning us to be aware of such people and not to follow them lest they destroy us all.
  22. HanSolOKniser3 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 4
    Maybe Jar Jar is the true Dark Lord of the Sith! :eek: ;)

    [face_peace] :D [face_monkey]
  23. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    Maybe Jar Jar is the true Dark Lord of the Sith!

    There was a great deal of discussion on that possibility over the past few years. However, the overall judgment is that Jar Jar is merely a fool being used by evil forces to accomplish their goals.
  24. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5

    It is the fool who sets the stage for the destruction of the Republic. Lucas is warning us to be aware of such people and not to follow them lest they destroy us all.


    That to me is exactly why his AOTC appearance is so god atrocious.

    The main theme of the Old Republic falling is how Democracies fail. In addition to it crumbling under greed, complacency and bureacracy; the Republic still falls despite the help and advice of the Jedi Order and good well-meaning politicians. Bringing in the Clone Army, however well intentioned, is leading to their disaster. The Republic is inviting War in doing so, and eventually, their own destruction.

    The abject moral lesson is that even good people can make bad choices. That even good people can be brought into war - or make decisions for fear and safety which destroy the foundations of democracy.

    Times of "crisis" scare us into destroying liberties and freedoms. And it isn't the Fool who sacrifices freedom - it is every one of us. Often it is even the wiser and well-intentioned of leaders who succumb to fear and seed their own democracy's destruction. THAT is how democracies fail.

    To have JarJar "take the fall" for the Galaxy completely DEGRATES the greater story. It reeks of pandering to anti-JarJarites. Any excuses about Amidala's rep "having" to sway the Senate is hogwash. Lucas could have written this crap however - and what does he do, he places the entire fall of the Republic on a Fool.

    Is this the greater moral lesson? Is this what we pass down?

    Don't worry. Democracy is fine. Just don't elect Jar Jar... or any other Gungan for that matter.

    That's it? The fall of the great Republic is placed on a Fool - where it is so easily dismissed?

    When instead, all history has proven time and time again that it is the actions of good and strong and wise men - often caught in times of crisis - who succumb to evil men, and thus freedoms are sacrificed for "safety."

    It is rotten. 30 years we wait for the great tale of how good governments fail - and what do we get - he panders to a bunch of JarJar haters and cops out of telling the real story. Malarchy. AOTC is a rotting cestpool of a movie.
  25. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I think the voting process is in place just in case someone makes a stupid motion.

    The people who went along with Jar-Jar's motion were just as duped as good ol Jar-Jar.

    I think the message is democracy is fine until you grant your leader emergency powers to circumvent that democracy, then it becomes a dictatorship, which pretty much sucks unless the dictator is a really nice, selfless kind of guy.
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