PT Who Doesn't Hate Jar Jar anymore?..

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by lightsaver, Jan 19, 2005.

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  1. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    OK, let me spell it out: Jar Jar is not a fool. In AOTC, look past the way he looks, the way he walks and the way he talks and you will see that he is on the same level as all the others.
    His surface is just personality and does not reflect his intelligence.
    ...Well, in a way it does, because most of the time, it's wiser to be happy than to let things push you down, but he is a politician and he knows how politics work.
    He only has ten years of experience with it, though, not a lifetime like Padmé and Palpatine. So he's kind of out of his league when they discuss in Palpatine's office.
    Not a fool, just a rookie.

    I would love to see the cut scene, BTW, where Jar Jar speaks to the senate and they all mock him, but then he wins their respect just before he makes the proposal. That's one scene I wish they'd left in.



    Star Wars is six, two and one
    /LM
  2. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    I think the message is democracy is fine until you grant your leader emergency powers to circumvent that democracy, then it becomes a dictatorship, which pretty much sucks unless the dictator is a really nice, selfless kind of guy.

    First off, you've been reading too much Plato and philosopher king. No dictator is good. Second, you're message is too specific to be mythic - do all democracies have emergency powers? No. Do they still corrupt? Yes. And lastly - the ONLY message in the film is that Democracy is fine unless you have to go on vacation and appoint a Gungan to office. No Jar Jar and the world is safe. Blah. Meaningless fodder.



    OK, let me spell it out: Jar Jar is not a fool.

    Yes, he is. Pick up your mythology or the Tarot, which is a direct correlation to mythological archetypes. That is precisely what the character of Jar Jar is meant to embody. That's why he's completely successful in TPM - a brilliant character critical to the Star Wars mythology - but an utter waste in AOTC.

  3. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    In my opinion, one of the reasons I think some people hate Jar Jar isn't because of his idiocy and clumsiness, but rather that he didn't grow out of it. He didn't grow, he didn't change, and films that tell a story with characters tend to have characters that change in some way, internally, so that the adventure has meaning and relevence. If they don't change, then there was no point to the movie. Jar Jar doesn't try to change, he makes no effort to try and be more than what he is. Instead, his idiocy is made into an asset. Rather than have his character try and reach a higher standard, the standard is lowered so he can be acceptable without change. Had Jar Jar grown up and become more mature by the end of the film as a result of these experiences, he wouldn't be as hated.
  4. TrueJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    The people who went along with Jar-Jar's motion were just as duped as good ol Jar-Jar.

    You keep missing my point. And that is, Jar Jar was the one who made the motion. No one else joined him in issuing the motion jointly. Yes, other Senators voted for it but at least they weren't stupid enough to propose it in the first place. It was the fool who took everyone down the road to tyranny. The Senators trusted Jar Jar's innocence and were fooled into believing in him. That's the ultimate trap. Don't fall for the fool who will blindly lead you to destruction.
  5. Anakenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2004
    star 1
    >>Obviously Lucas had a thought process for picking Jake Lloyd and some people agree with the decision. Personally, I would have cast the other blonde kid in a heartbeat given the three finalists, because he seemed like a better actor<<

    You mean the one that looked like a rabbit blinded by headlights? Scared stiff and barely able to says his lines? That blonde kid?

    Yeah right!
  6. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Stiff delivery of lines? But Natalie's not blonde! :p
  7. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Jar Jar is a fool in TPM, but in AOTC, he has clearly grown out of it(despite what some people will have you believe). I can see his character evolving and I can see where it's going to take him. When you've seen ROTS, you will see what I see.

    The great thing about him in TPM, BTW, is that he doesn't change within the course of the film - it's the other's view of him that changes. He is a very odd figure, but he has accepted that fact(because in his eyes, he is just as normal as Qui-Gon). He won't change because others want him to. He likes being who he is and it's up to those around him whether they will accept him or not. In the end, they(his people) do accept him, because they see that he does possess good qualities.
    This is a very important message and I especially like the fact that he works the same way outside of the movie. Many of us have learned to appreciate him just as those in the movie did.



    "RE: the sith" rules
    /LM
  8. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    The above, along with his character arc throughout the trilogy, makes Jar Jar Binks one of the best characters in Star Wars, IMO.



    Star Wars is a saga
    Watch and believe

    /LM
  9. Tyranus_the_Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    I don't necessarily disagree with you, Lars, but to play devil's advocate for a moment, let's look at another matter. Some people argue that Jar-Jar's so-called "character arc" is in fact Lucas' response to the disgruntled media/fanbase, which strongly indicated that they found the character to be a repugnant and distracting presence in 'Episode 1'. So when writing 'Episode 2', Lucas attempted to appease the fanbase by diminishing the prominence of Jar-Jar by essentially writing him out of the story. How would you, or others, respond to that?
  10. HanSolOKniser3 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 4
    It may be more than just appeasing the "Haters" that Jar Jar's role in AOTC was so diminished. The truth is that his character is not necessary in AOTC except for giving Palps his emergency powers. Some fans (myself included) assumed that Jar Jar was going to be filling the Chewie role for the PT. GL might not have ever meant for Jar Jar to have that much screen time.

    Plus, Jar Jar in TPM was (imo) a kind of experiment to see if he (GL) could create an animated character and have him "occupy" the screen with real actors and pull it off well. Which, I think, he accomplished. Because of Jar Jar (at least in part) we got Gollum, C.G.I. Yoda, the Kaminoans, the clone troopers and next up G.G.

    [face_peace] :D [face_monkey]
  11. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I respond like this: That's a load of Strilo edit: That abbrieviation of swearing is not allowed. The reason Jar Jar had such a prominent role in TPM is that Threepio was hardly in it. Threepio is the main comic relief of Star Wars and someone had to fill in for him. Jar Jar was perfect for the job.
    In AOTC, Threepio was brought into the picture, so Jar Jar had to step back(as the above poster says, the size of his role is really more similar to Chewie's).
    It's common sense, one doesn't need to be Einstein to figure it out.



    Star Wars is six, two and one
    /LM
  12. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    Jar Jar isn't supposed to have a character arc. He's secondary - he is who he is. Chewie is Chewie, 3P0 is 3P0, R2 is R2, and so one. He was designed to be the The Fool, nothing more, nothing less. A role he was perfect in for TPM. A role which was unnecessary and degrated the greater story for in AOTC.
  13. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Jar Jar is Jar Jar. He is not Threepio, Chewie or Artoo. Unlike them, he does have a character arc. I can't believe you have missed his development.



    "RE: the sith" rules
    /LM
  14. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    He's not supposed to have an arc. The dumbfounded look on his face in the Chancellor's office in AOTC is the same dumbfounded look when we first see him in TPM. The only difference is is a visual one - because the CGI work is different (Why?) almost to the point where he looks like a different GunGan..

    He's a archetype. A flat character - he isn't meant to change.
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Yes TrueJedi, but their job as senators is to not vote bad things into being. They are supposed to look at the motion Jar-Jar made, and decide for themsevles whether or not it's a good idea.

    Obviously enough people thought it would be a good enough idea that it went into effect.

    They had the sense of a rubber stamp.
  16. PrinceEspaaValorum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 4
    He annoyed me at first. Then I really loathed him. Perhaps bc his role was reduced in AOTC, and bc AOTC and the spoilers for ROTS redeemed TPM for me, Jar Jar does not bother me so much anymore. Nor does Jake Lloyd.
  17. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    He's not supposed to have an arc.

    Weird, then, that he has one.
    It seems like you simply don't want him to have an arc, Hudnall. Too bad for you. The arc is there and I love it.

    BTW: You can't really compare Jar Jar to Chewie and the droids. The droids aren't living creatures and Chewie has no understandable spoken dialogue(though he has very understandable physical dialogue).
    You can't connect with these three in the same way as you can with the main characters. With Jar Jar, you can.

    EDIT: Ten years pass between TPM and AOTC. I'm not surprised Jar Jar looks a bit different. He was a smoothskinned youth back in the days, now he isn't.



    Personality is the key to art
    /LM
  18. sithlord85 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2004
    star 3
    not me. If you notice in ATOC its all jar jar's fault. When Senator Amidala hides with aniken on Naboo He is left in charge of the senate. During a time of crisis. I love how Ian uses his character with is fellow sporters. "If only Senator Amidala where here" forcing jar jar to feel guilty, thus giving him emergency powers. Now I believe in Episode III those powers are still going on because the clone war was advancing and he abused those powers naming himself emperor thus MAKING IT ALL JAR JAR's FAULT!
  19. ObiWanCon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2004
    star 4
  20. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Then let me ask you a question: How healthy can it be to hate a fictional character? A character who's completely made up and hasn't done you any actual harm? A character who is nothing but sounds and images?



    Six episodes, Two trilogies, One Saga
    /LM
  21. GrandAdmiral_Frank Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2003
    star 4
    I've never really had a problem with him but I can see why people don't like him and I won't not make fun of him but I don't hate him.
  22. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Lars, let's steer clear of discussing what is and is not healthy for fans to think and do. I think concentrating on the films is the way to go.

  23. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Excuse me for being concerned about my fellow fans! I wasn't trying to start a debate, I was just raising a question which I hope will get people to think. I don't want any replies to that post.



    Star Wars is six, two and one
    /LM
  24. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I understand, Lars. However this type of discussion in the past has led down paths that were bad so I would rather just steer clear.

  25. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I see. Hope I don't cause you any trouble, then. I'll be careful in the future and make sure I won't reply to any comments on that post.



    Personality is the key to art
    /LM
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