PT Who Doesn't Hate Jar Jar anymore?..

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by lightsaver, Jan 19, 2005.

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  1. TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    Go-Mer-Tonic:

    I absolutely agree with you. But wouldn't you think that Jar Jar is worse for not only voting for the motion but actually being the one to make the motion?

    Also, what do you think was Lucas thinking when he made Jar Jar the one to propose the motion? I mean, we all know that Palpy controlled a bunch of Senators, why not have them make the motion? Why would any Senator vote for anything that Jar Jar put out on the floor?
  2. Wesyeed Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2005
    star 4
    I'll never know why people like Jar Jar but everyone has different tastes.

    Probably Ahmed's Favorite scenes:
    Stepping in poop.
    Being farted on.

    He's an interesting gay character.

    I LOVED the part in TPM in which Jar Jar's character actually servers a higher purpose. Where he tells the queen that the gungans have a grand army. That it. Everything else is George Lucas CGI experimentation in my eyes. Oh I love that scene. his voice is tolerable and he just conveys such a sadness, underscored by a glimmer of hope. Gosh IT KILLS ME that if only GL had kept that side of Jar Jar exposed instead of the GOOFY dumb guy that makes the kids chuckle, things would have been A LOT different post TPM.

    No one was ready for a character like Jar Jar when they went to see TPM. It was just shocking to see a fool other than C-3p0 or Jabba's Jester.

    (from Wikipedia -Fool:
    It represents a number of human conditions: innocence, ignorance, heterodoxy, freedom, great cheer, freedom from earthly desires or passions but also perversity, audacity, truth, confidence, or cultural power.

    The root of the word "fool" is from the Latin follis, which means "bag of wind" or that which contains air or breath.)

    Loud, obnoxious, and annoying usually garners the type of reaction Jar Jar got after TPM made it's run. If you want my opinion, I think it was only blown into proportion with Star Wars itself... from a certain point of view.
  3. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I believe Palpatine chose Jar Jar because he was a rookie. Jar Jar wouldn't make things more complicated than they already were. Afterall, he wasn't a real senator, only a representative. He would do what he thought had to be done and that's it. He wouldn't add anything on his own accord, like other senators no doubt would.



    Personality is the key to art
    /LM
  4. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    I believe Palpatine chose Jar Jar because he was a rookie.

    He did? [face_thinking]

  5. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    ...as opposed to "cuz he's a fool", I mean. :)
    If you ask Palpatine, everyone are fools, so that can't be the reason why he chose Jar Jar. He just chose someone who wouldn't cause any trouble whatsoever.



    Star Wars is a saga
    Watch and believe

    /LM
  6. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Actually what I meant was, I thought Padme chose Jar Jar to be the Rep. And Jar Jar being one who had no ulterior motives, was chosen by Padme for this reason. Someone who'll do what they believe is the good thing to do, to save the Republic.

    Finally, Palpatine only said "...would have the courage". So Jar Jar steps up, believing that he'll step up to the plate (when it was a difficult decision really, to allow the EP) Im sure he believed that Palpatine would eventually do good things, after the threat abates.

    So basically Palpatine didn't choose Jar Jar. JJ chose himself to propose the EP.




  7. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I know that Padmé chose Jar Jar as representative, but what I meant was that Palpatine chose to manipulate him.
    Who knows? Perhaps Palpatine had even suggested to Padmé, years ago, that Jar Jar should be her assistant? ;)



    Star Wars is a saga
    Watch and believe

    /LM
  8. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Perhaps Palpatine had even suggested to Padmé, years ago, that Jar Jar should be her assistant?

    That is possible. However, I would lean to Padme as she "counted on him".
  9. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    I've always enjoyed Jar Jar's antics even when I started to loose some of my love for the Prequel films. Out of all the characters I can remember from my last viewing, which was some time ago, the Gungan for me was the character full of life.

    "I never hated him in TPM and thought he was great, but does anyone think he sticks out like a sore thumb in AOTC?"

    I thought he did which was a shame. They even cut parts of his senate speech in Episode II. :(
  10. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Why would padme count on Jar-Jar? She has more fingers than he does...
  11. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Why would padme count on Jar-Jar? She has more fingers than he does...

    ?I know I can count on you?.

    She already trusted him to get help in TPM, when all seemed lost;even when he?s an outcast from his own kind! So why not in this case? Granted she probably thought things wouldn?t deteriorate that badly and she?ll come back to vote.

    And Im sure, nobody except Palpatine (and Dooku probably) knew that the clone army will be used for a bigger antagonistic purpose. While everyone goes along with it, being pawns in Palpatine?s scheme.

  12. young_zev Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 1999
    star 3
    I didn't understand Jar-Jar at all, until I watched the movie with my 3 year old son. He thought Jar-Jar was great, and hilarious, and a cool character, and worth the screen time.

    That made me realize that my own point of view is not the only one, or the right one, necessarily.

    Another thing I realized was that Jar-Jar is a Fool, yes. With a capital 'F'. He's a symbol, a classic character type.

    We don't have Fools in movies anymore. Now in movies, everyone has to change and grow. Storytelling wasn't always this way.** Jar-Jar is a throwback to that kind of story, and I think he's alright.

    It's like developing a taste for a new food. Once you "get it," it clicks and it starts to all make sense.


    ** in fact, I think this notion of "changing and growing" isn't even a realistic one. Most of us go through life repeating the same mistakes over and over. Why shouldn't characters in the movies?
  13. OBIWAN-JR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2002
    star 6
    >>>>I almost feel as though he was created to be disliked. Foolish, awkward, irritating. Who would want to be submitted to a character like this? I have come to accept Jar-Jar and his place in the SW universe but I still don?t like him.

    Bingo!

    What you have pointed out here, is exactly what I believe Lucas was doing with Jar Jar.

    Firstly, let me just preface this by saying that I love Jar Jar, and always have. If I had been on these boards back in the days of TPM, then I would have defended the loveable Gungan to the hilt.

    Jar Jar's character is based on a character from one of Akira Kurosawa's films. As many fans know, Kurosawa has been a large influence on Lucas' telling of the SW story. The Kurosawa film which Jar Jar's character is influenced by, was the cinematic telling of an old revered Japanese Kabuki play. Kurosawa, however, decided to add a character to his film that was never in the original Kabuki play.

    This additional character was a 'fool'. And this is the character whom Jar Jar was based on.

    At the time of Kurosawa's movie release, his film received a critical mauling, and guess which character took most of the flak....? The paying audience, who historically had always loved the Kabuki play through the years, were very disenchanted with Kurosawa's addition to their beloved piece of theatre.

    Sound familiar, at all?

    Lucas would have known all of this. And yet he went ahead with Binks anyway.

    So the question you have to ask is: WHY?


    For me, Jar Jar is an allegorical figure.

    He is a highly ambivalent character. And that is exactly the point.

    All of the adults in TPM seem to dislike Jar Jar (even Qui-Gon at first, but I'll come back to him), either immediately or built up over time (in the case of the Gungans), so is it any wonder that the adult movie-viewing audience would feel the same?

    However, the children in TPM - Anakin and Padme - are the ones who form a bond with Jar Jar and accept him for who he is, and in the case of the Queen, realise that he could be of great help to the planetary citizens of Naboo.

    Unsurprisingly, the children in the audience seem to love him too. Jar Jar captures the vulnerability, awkwardness and naivete that children feel and try to hide for fear of being ridiculed. Lucas has commented on his being frog-like in appearance; Jung remarked that the frog is animal symbolism for the child. Jar Jar represents the clumsy child inside all of us. The part of us that we fear showing to the cynical adult world we now inhabit.

    Pschologically, when we deny these aspects of our character, we usually project them onto others in a negative way. Jar Jar, whose whose bumbling qualities drew ridicule from his own society, evoked similar responses from members of ours as well. And this is exactly what we fear will happen when we expose the 'Binks' inside of ourselves.

    Qui-Gon's part in this should not be overlooked, either. His initial response to Jar Jar is one of annoyance, and he puts the Gungan down. However, Jinn is a practitioner of the Living Force, and lives in the moment. His understanding that the Will of the Force is trying to talk to him with regard to Binks is what enables him to see past the 'fool' an accept that the Gungan may be of importance in the order of things.

    Whilst he does not see the ulitimate importance of Jar Jar, he sees that the Force maybe has a plan with regard to him, and he listens.

    He says to Kenobi that they may need a guide to get them through the planet core, and yet once underwater he states that the Force will guide them. So the Jedi Master's motives for bringing the Gungan along clearly run deeper than appearances would have us believe.

    When we get to the crucial moment in the story of TPM, Jar Jar's having been around the Queen forms a vital symbiotic link in her being able to forge an alliance that wins the day.

    Were it not for Qui-Gon's use of the Living Force, there would have been no Gungan army at Padme's disposal.

    In light of the way in which ROTS is shaping
  14. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well it's about time you showed up.

    I had to defend him almost single handedly back in '99. ;)
  15. The_Jedi_Will_Die Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Jar Jar is still as annoying as hell.
  16. Wesyeed Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2005
    star 4
    I like beating dead horses.

    Strilo edit: I like it when people have something of value to contribute... and if they don't, I like it when they don't post.
  17. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    I never stopped hateing Jar Jar. Worst character in the entire saga, in my opinion.
  18. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    You are really good at hating Jar-Jar then.

    Congrats! :)
  19. Darth_Skywalker85 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    I never hated him nearly as much as Boss Nass....

    he's just muy muy obnoxious.
  20. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    I like beating dead horses.


    Dead horses don't hit back.
  21. CRUDE_MATTER Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2005
    star 1
    ugh. not the children love him and that's his purpose defence.
  22. CRUDE_MATTER Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2005
    star 1
    maybe Lucas should have learned from Kurosawa's example.

    here's the problem plain and simple.

    one of the most anticipated movies ever should not have a prominent character that no one will like. giving JJ characteristics that make him annoying/irritating/nauseating is asking for a tide of bad criticism.

    why gear anything towards children when the mass of your audience (the ones lining up outside) are twenty-five and up? did Lucas honestly not know who his audience would be?

    JJ was a computer generated experiment that ran amok with no one at the ranch finally speaking up and saying:

    a) "ok. we need to stop here and come up with something new."

    or

    b) "just because we have the technology doesn't mean we should."

    thank buddha he caught on and his role in AOTC was minimal.

    note: JJ was not to blame for giving Palp emergency powers. everyone is sucked in by him one way or another by the end.
  23. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Let's remember to keep this thread on topic. Who doesn't hate Jar Jar? This is not a thread for discussing what we didn't like about Jar Jar... or whine that the subject is akin to beating a dead horse.

  24. HanSolOKniser3 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 4
  25. OBIWAN-JR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2002
    star 6
    >>>>Well it's about time you showed up.

    [face_laugh] Apologies, Go-Mer. Better late than never though, right...? ;)


    >>>>ugh. not the children love him and that's his purpose defence.

    Nope. Go back and re-read what I wrote, CM. That's not what I said.


    >>>>maybe Lucas should have learned from Kurosawa's example.

    Maybe the people should have learned from Kurosawa's lesson....


    >>>>one of the most anticipated movies ever should not have a prominent character that no one will like. giving JJ characteristics that make him annoying/irritating/nauseating is asking for a tide of bad criticism.

    Even if it is trying to teach you something about yourself, and society as a whole?


    >>>>why gear anything towards children when the mass of your audience (the ones lining up outside) are twenty-five and up? did Lucas honestly not know who his audience would be?

    Different argument, but you have to remember that Lucas has always geared the SW Saga towards 8-12 year olds. Those are the people he is really trying to reach. The ones who are still able to have an open mind.


    -JR :)
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