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PT Who exactly knew Chancellor Palpatine was Darth Sidious?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jordan1Kenobi, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi Host of Star Wars Character Contest star 6 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Who did Palpatine actually tell that he was a Sith Lord or was going undercover as the Chancellor of the Republic? I've got a few characters here who may have knew about him, but I'm not entirely sure who exactly knew.

    Count Dooku - I'm sure he told Dooku, because he played such a huge role in Palpatine's plans and the war, so he would always have to know what's going on. Plus by the look on his face when Palpatine told Anakin to kill him, he looked at him like he knew who he was.

    Darth Maul - I don't think he did, because I doubt Palpatine was planning on keeping him around for long because of Dooku, and Maul was only a small part of his plan, but I guess that could be part of the reason why Palpatine wants to hunt down and kill Maul and Savage, in case they know anything about his plans.

    General Grievous - I don't think he did, because just like Maul, he was only a part of his plan, plus Palpatine hardly even gave orders to Grievous, it was Dooku who was his leader, and as long as Dooku knew everything, then there's no point telling Grievous.

    Mas Amedda - I think he knew, because Palpatine would have told him so they could work together in the Galactic Senate to get whatever results Palpatine wanted, plus in an episode of The Clone Wars, Palpatine says something to him about his plan coming together.

    Sly Moore - I don't think she had as much of a major role with Palpatine and the Galactic Senate as Mas Amedda did, so there would probably be no point telling her.

    So I'd say that Count Dooku and Mas Amedda were the only ones who knew, but I could be wrong, so does anyone actually know?
     
  2. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Maul knew. He isn't as dumb as many think he is. Mas Amedda, Sly Moore, and Dooku knew as well.
     
  3. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    Max Rebo knew, he caught Palpy electrocuting a senator from Malastare. Rebo just didn't care cuz he had to make it to the next gig.
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In Revenge of the Sith (the novel), Sidious & Dooku are having a conversation immediately before Sidious is "rescued" by Anakin & Obi-Wan- it's pretty clear Dooku knows.

    In Labyrinth of Evil, Grievous doesn't seem to know that Palpatine is Sidious.

    And at one point I think in the RoTS novel Grievous thinks that "If it becomes necessary to kill Palpatine despite my orders, I'm sure Sidious will forgive me- there's a war on after all"
     
  5. LandoThe CapeCalrissian

    LandoThe CapeCalrissian Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Dec 30, 2012
    I agree. He was a very close associate to Palpatine.
     
  6. LandoThe CapeCalrissian

    LandoThe CapeCalrissian Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Dec 30, 2012
    where did this happen
     
  7. TheRevanchist

    TheRevanchist Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 13, 2012
    I am sure that Plagueis and Dooku knew. Ameda and Maul most likely knew it too.

    Griveous, I don't think.
     
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  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    From the EU, Sate Pestage knew, in addition to those already listed. Pestage hid Palpatine's Sith artifacts for him.
     
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  9. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    I just made it up on the spot. Could have totally happened, though. There's nothing in canon that contradicts that, y'know what I mean?
     
  10. Julius Vernon

    Julius Vernon Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 7, 2012
    This is a very interesting discussion because it tells us a lot about who was in Palpatine's true "inner circle."
    • Count Dooku - I think the scene the OP references does suggest Dooku knew. I think the real question here is when did he find out?
    • Darth Maul - I'm with Jordan1Kenobi here. I think it was early enough in the planning stages that Palpatine wouldn't disclose this even to his apprentice (I don't think it's a reflection on Maul's intelligence in anyway either).
    • General Grievous - No, I don't think it was necessary for him to know and Palpatine would only disclose this when necessary.
    • Mad Amedda - Very interesting. I'd like to know if he knew.
    • Sly Moore - I'm with the OP on this as well.
    • Sate Pestage - anakinfansince1983, I'm not familiar with the story you're referencing. Where does that come from? This is very interesting indeed.
     
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  11. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Maul, Tyranus and probably Mas Amedda.
     
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    At a guess I'd say when Sidious began training him. Labyrinth of Evil does state that Sidious approached Dooku (p144) and that Dooku became a Dark Lord with the murder of Sifo Dyas, which took place 10 years before AoTC and very shortly after TPM.

    Page 377 of Darth Plagueis: Maul is musing on the problem of what he's to do if Sidious gets killed:

    What then if- beyond contemplation- something should befall his Master? Unlike Darth Sidious, who masqueraded as Republic Senator Palpatine and debated complex issues in the Senate, Maul lacked a secret identity. With his yellow eyes and horned head a black-and-red mask of arcane sigils, it was all he could do to prowl the fringes of The Works in the dead of night without instilling fear in nearly every being whose gaze he caught.
     
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  13. Julius Vernon

    Julius Vernon Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 7, 2012
    I'd think it was quite a while before Dooku knew that Sidious and Palpatine were one in the same though. Based on other EU I've always gotten the feeling that Dooku didn't know early on. I can't point to anything concrete however.

    So from what you've written I can see that you think this means that Maul knew "Sidious [was] masquerading as Republic Senator Palpatine." I'm reading it more as a narrative insertion by the author (not necessarily revealing the thoughts of Maul). I think this quote is noteworthy though because it could be telling us that Maul knew.

    I certainly don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that Maul would have known. Based on what we know of Sith though, they play things close to their vests even with their apprentices. That's part of why I don't think Dooku knew right away. An argument could be made that Dooku never knew and his reaction to Palpatine telling Anakin to kill him wasn't because he knew Palpatine was his master, but because he assumed a higher moral standard from the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic.

    Edit: As I was thinking about this, if Mas Amedda and Sate Pestage knew; then I would presume that Sidious would inform his apprentices.
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    For Moore- p159-160 of The Clone Wars Campaign Guide (Saga Edition Roleplaying Game)

    She is introduced to Palpatine after being abducted by a tattooed Zabrak assassin and imprisoned for months in an ancient tomb somewhere in the Kron Drift. While imprisoned, she is mentally and spiritually assaulted on a daily basis by log-dead Sith Lords- only her natural strength of will kept her from going completely mad. Palpatine rescues her, claiming that he "heard" her cries for help in his mind. He praises Sly for having survived the ordeal and cares for her until she is ready to be on her own again. In time, they form a close bond, and Palpatine eventually admits to the young Umbaran that he has powerful mental abilities that he intends to use to bring order to the galaxy. Intrigued by his vision of the Republic, Moore asks Palpatine if there is anything she can do to help.

    Palpatine gradually comes to trust Moore's discretion, finally revealing the details of his grand scheme to her, as well as his "alter ego". After Palpatine becomes Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, Moore finds it easier to suppress the voice of her conscience. She watches as Darth Sidious plots against the Jedi, oversees the creation of a secret clone army, and manipulates everyone around him to bring about a galaxy-spanning war. By the time Palpatine issues Order 66, Sly Moore firmly believes he has the galaxy's best interests at heart, and that war is a necessary step toward ensuring lasting peace.

    Whereas for Mas Amedda (p158)

    After Palpatine succeeds Valorum, things seem to go much more smoothly, and Palpatine seems as easy to control as a broken-down farm eopie. The new Supreme Chancellor agrees to nearly every measure the Speaker suggests, and Amedda believes that he has achieved his greatest political victory.

    However, as worlds begin seceding from the Republic to join the Confederacy of Independent Systems, Mas Amedda gradually becomes aware that Palpatine is the true master of manipulation. Mas Amedda becomes increasingly suspicious of Palpatine's every move, and, when four Jedi Masters from the High Council come to arrest the Supreme Chancellor, the Chagrian finally sees what a fool he has been.
     
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  15. Julius Vernon

    Julius Vernon Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Great stuff. That locks up Sly Moore. Very interesting about Amedda. That's more how I was picturing things prior to this discussion. It seems rather fitting.
     
  16. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2010
    that Max Rebo thing sounds like something that would happen in a TCW episode ..


    (don't give 'em ideas)
     
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  17. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    A TCW episode? Why? It's from RC, by the way.
     
  18. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

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    Jul 24, 2010
    because it's just something TCW would do

    for "humour purposes"
     
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  19. Darth_Kiryan

    Darth_Kiryan Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 13, 2009
    I asm pretty sure that Plagueis knew as well, considering he did find Palpatine and name him Sidious.....
     
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  20. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

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    Jul 24, 2010
    Sistros edit

    N/A

    had nothing to do with the disccussion at hand,

    sorry
     
  21. Julius Vernon

    Julius Vernon Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 7, 2012
    Are you saying the rest of us were stupid for not realizing...? :confused:
     
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  22. Joe

    Joe Jedi Master star 6

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    Dec 25, 2012
    Maul knew. In TCW, he says something along the lines of 'they started without me' upon hearing of the Clone Wars. He knew the plan
     
  23. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    If they can do it as good as this bit, I would highly approve.



    Hell, just use this characterization of Max Rebo in TCW and thereby making it canon! Please, it would be fantastic. It's so damn good. Max Rebo never had any character to me until this bit. Now, in my head, he's always like this.
     
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  24. Darth Ruian

    Darth Ruian Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Darth Maul, Darth Plagueis, Count Dooku, Grevious, and Mas knew.

    Darth Plagueis knew, if you read the book "Darth Plagueis" you'd know.
    Count Dooku knew, he spoke with him in a Coruscant base at the end of AOTC.
    Sidious contacted him in ROTS telling him to send the Seperatist leaders to Mustafar in ROTS, and Grevious called him "Lord Sidious".
    Mas knew, well, because he was with him pretty much everywhere.
    And Maul knew because he told him he was a Senator in the Galactic Republic.
     
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  25. DarthLazious28273

    DarthLazious28273 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2013
    His whole staff knew he was a Sith Lord as well as his apprentices Darth Maul & Count Dooku and many others like Tarkin did as well. I had a feeling Yoda knew but could not put his finger on it.
     
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