PT Who exactly knew Chancellor Palpatine was Darth Sidious?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jordan1Kenobi, Jan 30, 2013.

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  1. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I'm saying it's unlikely because of their close contact with one another as shown in AOTC. Whatever TCW does or does not do won't change that. The Lucas-approved ROTS novel leaves no room for ambiguity at all.
  2. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah, but that's a novel, not the movies or TCW. Not G- or T-canon, IOW.
  3. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    G stands for George, and George edited it.
  4. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

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    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    The novel contradicts the movie at many points, which means the movie takes precedence.
  5. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    But this isn't one of those points.
  6. deadly jp Jedi Master

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    Jul 27, 2014
    star 1
    Its so obvious he was darth sidious in ep1 quigon jinns burial when the camera shows him last in the scene.
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  7. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    Yoda might have has some suspicions, but he was an idiot for not making any moves. No one knew except the apprentices.
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  8. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    Where is the evidence of all of his "staff" knowing this? Who even is his staff? Tarkin doesn't even show up in the movie until the end of ROTS and he isn't even a major character then. Where is the movie proof of your claims?
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  9. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 5, 2013
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    If you were watching the movies for the first time it would have been something to keep in the back of your mind, but I don't feel like it would have been obvious.
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  10. Bazinga'd Dark Lord of the SWC/PT/ Spinoff Forums

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    @Darth Dominikkus No double posts. You should have used the edit function. Please see the thread "Double Posts" in this forum.
  11. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2

    I don't think he had any suspicions regarding Palpatine being Sidious. That being said, he most definitely had suspicions about Palpatine's trustworthiness and if he truly didn't want the powers given to him. Even when the Council is watching Palpatine in ROTS, it doesn't seem that they were even suspecting him of being a Sith
    Lord, just a corrupt, power-hungry politician
  12. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    I am pretty positive on Mas Amedda knowing Palpatine's alter-ego.

    With Dooku, I have no idea, which is fascinating when you think about it. 12 years after the movie came out, there is still room for debate, based on what Dooku is telling the captive Kenobi. I always assumed Dooku was genuine because he thought the two of them could compete with Palpatine.

    After all, maybe he wanted to help Sidious overthrow the system (not being able to do it by himself, but was displeased with the unforgiving way Sidious would have run the show. As soon as the point of no return is reached, Dooku and his former Padawan's apprentice would have stepped in to resurrect a more thoughtfully run Republic from the ashes of the old one. Hence his outreach to someone he knew from the Jedi Temple for such a long time, someone who is carrying the wisdom he had passed down to Qui-Gon.

    Going by what we see in the films alone, it could be that Dooku may suspect, but ultimately doesn't know it's Palpatine. His baffled reaction to "Kill him now." could be interpreted as a strange change of events. Why would the captive Chancellor suddenly act as the bloodthirsty judge and jury?

    Now in the Darth Plagueis novel I got the impression him and Palpatine did meet on the same level and Dooku was led in on the grand plan, and Palpatine's full identity early on.
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  13. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 5, 2013
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    I'm basing my opinion off of the look Yoda gives Palps in the beginning of AOTC when the council is discussing the war in Palp's office.
  14. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2

    Oh, he definitely doesn't trust Palpatine. But I truly don't think he even suspected he was a Sith Lord, or even a force-user, just an untrustworthy man.
  15. AdamQD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2006
    I think he had quite a few aides and confidants that knew he was playing two roles, and maybe that he was a Sith, but the question is did they truly know what it meant to be a Sith? or what the name even meant? I'm sure there have been people who work with or for the Church but aren't Christian, and don't know the difference between a Cardinal and a Bishop... We assume the Jedi and Sith are a well known, transparent institution, and public knowledge because we see the story from their POV.
    -I think, Dooku, Maul, and Talzin knew he was a Sith, and what that truly meant,
    -I think, Mas Amedda, Sly Moore, and maybe his Guards knew they were working for a bad guy, but I don't think he would of been practicing Lightsaber techniques around them, or reciting Sith Proverbs.
    -I think, Tarkin and his ROTJ cronies came in to the picture later, knew he was a powerful Force user, but by that point Sidious had moved beyond the need to hide his true motives, or in fact even be a Sith in the historical sense, he had achieved his goals.
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  16. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Dooku states in AOTC that Gunray knows, doesn't he? I think he was probably telling the truth.

    Grievous certainly took orders from Sidious but didn't appear to know he was Palpatine, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he only refer to Dooku and never Tyranus?

    I suspect the people who join him at the opera with Anakin possibly knew, as he uses his Sidious voice to dismiss them... He could have been using some sort of mind trick, of course... Or maybe I just imagined the use of voice in that scene..?
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  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    In the movie - yes - in the book however, Grievous does refer to Tyranus once (where the film used "Dooku").

    The book makes it clear he doesn't know Sidious is Palpatine though - he even thinks that if it becomes necessary to kill Palpatine, Sidious will understand and forgive it.
  18. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    The book is rubbish so I don't count it. ;)
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  19. Bazinga'd Dark Lord of the SWC/PT/ Spinoff Forums

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    @V-2 Mod Note: Lets not bash the EU / Legends or any of the books.
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  20. DurararaFTW Jedi Master

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    Jul 5, 2014
    star 2
    Only his apprentices Darth Maul and Count Dooku, the ones he met in person as Darth Sidious on Corusant knew.
  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Maybe Mas Amedda, given that he was there when Palpatine blasted Yoda with lightning, and didn't seem all that surprised.
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  22. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

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    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    No way Gunray knows. The reason they blockaded Naboo was because they were protesting a tax....which was started by Palpatine. Sidious egged them on, but they still held resentment against Palpatine for the tax. So why would he knowingly serve the man who taxed him so heavily??

    Plus, he says to Grievous "Chancellor Palpatine managed to escape your grip, General! I have doubts about your ability to keep us safe!". Why would he mention Palpatine escaping if he knew they were the same person?
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  23. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I'm certain that Amedda knew. He repeatedly helps Palpatine and he witnessed Palpatine use Force Lightning. Also, Sidious tells the Trade Federation that he has the Senate bogged down in procedure and we see Amedda bogging Valorum and the Senate down in procedure.
  24. Deltron3030 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2014
    star 1
    Dooku spilled the entire plot to Obi-Wan on Geonosis. Pretty clear he knew. Plus at the end of AOTC he flies to the Republic capital and met his master. If he didn't outright know, he wasn't very smart if he couldn't figure it out.

    Going only by in-film, we do see Maul on Coruscant but it is possible he didn't know Sidious was Palpatine. Does anybody know if that terrace they were talking on was related to Palpatine in any way?
    Last edited by Deltron3030, Jul 30, 2014
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  25. WriterMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    I would say that, given there meetings on Coruscant, both Maul and Dooku were aware of the dual identity.

    However, I think it would really be a stretch to say anyone else other than maybe Mas Amedda was in the know.
    Last edited by WriterMan, Jul 30, 2014
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