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PT Who exactly knew Chancellor Palpatine was Darth Sidious?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jordan1Kenobi, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    I'm saying it's unlikely because of their close contact with one another as shown in AOTC. Whatever TCW does or does not do won't change that. The Lucas-approved ROTS novel leaves no room for ambiguity at all.
     
  2. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 1, 2012
    Yeah, but that's a novel, not the movies or TCW. Not G- or T-canon, IOW.
     
  3. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    G stands for George, and George edited it.
     
  4. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 1, 2012
    The novel contradicts the movie at many points, which means the movie takes precedence.
     
  5. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    But this isn't one of those points.
     
  6. deadly jp

    deadly jp Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jul 27, 2014
    Its so obvious he was darth sidious in ep1 quigon jinns burial when the camera shows him last in the scene.
     
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  7. Darth Dominikkus

    Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2013
    Yoda might have has some suspicions, but he was an idiot for not making any moves. No one knew except the apprentices.
     
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  8. Darth Dominikkus

    Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2013
    Where is the evidence of all of his "staff" knowing this? Who even is his staff? Tarkin doesn't even show up in the movie until the end of ROTS and he isn't even a major character then. Where is the movie proof of your claims?
     
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  9. Darth Dominikkus

    Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2013
    If you were watching the movies for the first time it would have been something to keep in the back of your mind, but I don't feel like it would have been obvious.
     
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  10. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd The Man / Also Known as Bazinga'd star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Darth Dominikkus No double posts. You should have used the edit function. Please see the thread "Double Posts" in this forum.
     
  11. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 21, 2011

    I don't think he had any suspicions regarding Palpatine being Sidious. That being said, he most definitely had suspicions about Palpatine's trustworthiness and if he truly didn't want the powers given to him. Even when the Council is watching Palpatine in ROTS, it doesn't seem that they were even suspecting him of being a Sith
    Lord, just a corrupt, power-hungry politician
     
  12. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2002
    I am pretty positive on Mas Amedda knowing Palpatine's alter-ego.

    With Dooku, I have no idea, which is fascinating when you think about it. 12 years after the movie came out, there is still room for debate, based on what Dooku is telling the captive Kenobi. I always assumed Dooku was genuine because he thought the two of them could compete with Palpatine.

    After all, maybe he wanted to help Sidious overthrow the system (not being able to do it by himself, but was displeased with the unforgiving way Sidious would have run the show. As soon as the point of no return is reached, Dooku and his former Padawan's apprentice would have stepped in to resurrect a more thoughtfully run Republic from the ashes of the old one. Hence his outreach to someone he knew from the Jedi Temple for such a long time, someone who is carrying the wisdom he had passed down to Qui-Gon.

    Going by what we see in the films alone, it could be that Dooku may suspect, but ultimately doesn't know it's Palpatine. His baffled reaction to "Kill him now." could be interpreted as a strange change of events. Why would the captive Chancellor suddenly act as the bloodthirsty judge and jury?

    Now in the Darth Plagueis novel I got the impression him and Palpatine did meet on the same level and Dooku was led in on the grand plan, and Palpatine's full identity early on.
     
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  13. Darth Dominikkus

    Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2013
    I'm basing my opinion off of the look Yoda gives Palps in the beginning of AOTC when the council is discussing the war in Palp's office.
     
  14. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 21, 2011

    Oh, he definitely doesn't trust Palpatine. But I truly don't think he even suspected he was a Sith Lord, or even a force-user, just an untrustworthy man.
     
  15. AdamQD

    AdamQD Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2006
    I think he had quite a few aides and confidants that knew he was playing two roles, and maybe that he was a Sith, but the question is did they truly know what it meant to be a Sith? or what the name even meant? I'm sure there have been people who work with or for the Church but aren't Christian, and don't know the difference between a Cardinal and a Bishop... We assume the Jedi and Sith are a well known, transparent institution, and public knowledge because we see the story from their POV.
    -I think, Dooku, Maul, and Talzin knew he was a Sith, and what that truly meant,
    -I think, Mas Amedda, Sly Moore, and maybe his Guards knew they were working for a bad guy, but I don't think he would of been practicing Lightsaber techniques around them, or reciting Sith Proverbs.
    -I think, Tarkin and his ROTJ cronies came in to the picture later, knew he was a powerful Force user, but by that point Sidious had moved beyond the need to hide his true motives, or in fact even be a Sith in the historical sense, he had achieved his goals.
     
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  16. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Dooku states in AOTC that Gunray knows, doesn't he? I think he was probably telling the truth.

    Grievous certainly took orders from Sidious but didn't appear to know he was Palpatine, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he only refer to Dooku and never Tyranus?

    I suspect the people who join him at the opera with Anakin possibly knew, as he uses his Sidious voice to dismiss them... He could have been using some sort of mind trick, of course... Or maybe I just imagined the use of voice in that scene..?
     
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  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In the movie - yes - in the book however, Grievous does refer to Tyranus once (where the film used "Dooku").

    The book makes it clear he doesn't know Sidious is Palpatine though - he even thinks that if it becomes necessary to kill Palpatine, Sidious will understand and forgive it.
     
  18. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 10, 2012
    The book is rubbish so I don't count it. ;)
     
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  19. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd The Man / Also Known as Bazinga'd star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    V-2 Mod Note: Lets not bash the EU / Legends or any of the books.
     
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  20. DurararaFTW

    DurararaFTW Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 5, 2014
    Only his apprentices Darth Maul and Count Dooku, the ones he met in person as Darth Sidious on Corusant knew.
     
  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe Mas Amedda, given that he was there when Palpatine blasted Yoda with lightning, and didn't seem all that surprised.
     
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  22. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 21, 2011
    No way Gunray knows. The reason they blockaded Naboo was because they were protesting a tax....which was started by Palpatine. Sidious egged them on, but they still held resentment against Palpatine for the tax. So why would he knowingly serve the man who taxed him so heavily??

    Plus, he says to Grievous "Chancellor Palpatine managed to escape your grip, General! I have doubts about your ability to keep us safe!". Why would he mention Palpatine escaping if he knew they were the same person?
     
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  23. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I'm certain that Amedda knew. He repeatedly helps Palpatine and he witnessed Palpatine use Force Lightning. Also, Sidious tells the Trade Federation that he has the Senate bogged down in procedure and we see Amedda bogging Valorum and the Senate down in procedure.
     
  24. Deltron3030

    Deltron3030 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jul 22, 2014
    Dooku spilled the entire plot to Obi-Wan on Geonosis. Pretty clear he knew. Plus at the end of AOTC he flies to the Republic capital and met his master. If he didn't outright know, he wasn't very smart if he couldn't figure it out.

    Going only by in-film, we do see Maul on Coruscant but it is possible he didn't know Sidious was Palpatine. Does anybody know if that terrace they were talking on was related to Palpatine in any way?
     
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  25. WriterMan

    WriterMan Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 26, 2012
    I would say that, given there meetings on Coruscant, both Maul and Dooku were aware of the dual identity.

    However, I think it would really be a stretch to say anyone else other than maybe Mas Amedda was in the know.