Who has suffered the most in the entire saga?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by OnlyOneKenobi, Mar 12, 2003.

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  1. OnlyOneKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 3
    Which of all the characters suffered the most in your opinion?

    Anakin :

    - Lived a life of slavery for 9 years
    - Was taken away from his mother, the only person he's ever loved
    - Denied Jedi training, his greatest aspiration ever, but the council changes its decision later.
    - He's removed from Padme, who he has a crush on, for 10 years and it develops into a bit of an obsession.
    - Is plagued by nightmares of his mother suffering.
    - Feels held back by Obi-Wan.
    - Meets Padme again, and has his declarations of love thrown back in his face, but gets mixed signals from her. She later says she loves him.
    - Loses several Jedi comrades in the clone wars.
    - Loses an arm in a duel with Count Dooku
    - Faces possible expultion from the Jedi order due to his attachment & forbidden marriage to Padme.
    - Is messed up horribly in a battle with Obi-Wan \ and \ or other Jedi.
    - Rest unknown.

    Obi-Wan

    -His master picks another padawan over him, and as an afterthought claims he is ready for the Jedi trials.
    -Loses his master in a fight with a sith warrior.
    -Is forced by his dying master to take on an apprentice he feels could be dangerous.
    -Constantly needs to discipline Anakin, since he is too hot headed and irrational, and arrogant.
    -Suffers injuries at the hand of Count Dooku, his own Master's master.
    -Is betrayed by Anakin on numerous occasions.
    -Is forced to "kill" his own apprentice, who, despite their differences, was a good friend to him.
    -Has to live with the fact that this friend, who survives their battle, assists the greatest tyrant in known history in dominating the galaxy and hunting down the Jedi.
    -Has to go into hiding on a desert planet, looking after the son of the second baddest person in the galaxy.
    -Sacrifices himself so he could be more powerful in death, so he could train Anakin's son to defeat him and the Emperor.

    So far, I think Obi-Wan and Anakin are about equal in the suffering department.

    What insights do you have?
  2. Trojan_Sock Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    Shmi, Padme, and Leia have all suffered very serious loses due to their affiliation with Anakin.

    Don't forget the women. :(
  3. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    Without a doubt, Obi-Wan. Why? Because with the single exception of being a slave for the first nine years of his life, every other suffering he went through was precisely because of the decision he took - He was wrenched apart from his mother and Amidala because he wanted to be a Jedi. He was horribly disfigured by Obi-Wan in the final fight - well, that's because he turned to the Dark Side.

    Obi-Wan, on the other hand, suffered through his entire life because he was forced to train an apprentice he didn't want all because of his master's dying wish. Yes, some of his suffering (a.k.a., living in Tatooine for 17 years) is a result of his own choices, but my point is that most of what he chooses, he does for the galactic good rather than personal pleasure.

    Aunecah
  4. Jedi Daniel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2000
    star 5
  5. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Threepio
    He lived through one decapitation, two head transplants and a blast that blew him into tiny pieces. Without sedation!
  6. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Lars_Muul -- he seems to be made to suffer. It's his lot in life.




    Rick McCallum loves you!
  7. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    You forgot that Anakin had his mother die in his own arms.
    In terms of the saga, I think it's wrought with people who suffer throughout.
    But there's an important question to ask.
    Just like with physical pain, there's a threshold of what each individual can take. Some people can take a lot, some very little.
    Some people can take excessive physical beatings but crumple in the emotions department etc.
    You also have to look at another aspect.
    A lot of bad things happened to Anakin but later, the bad things were happening as a result of bad choices he made. At some point he gave up caring about taking responsibility for his actions.
    Obi-Wan. Many bad things happened to him, but he learned to take responsibility for his actions and prevented what he could or tried to right the wrongs from it, thus preventing what more 'bad' he could.
    However, at some point, no matter what he did, the bad things came anyway.
    What I'm getting at here, is at some point in time, Anakin became a victim of his own actions whereas Obi-Wan became a victim of other's actions.
    What's worse? Doing it to yourself or having it thrust upon you?
    Also, you have to look at the age they were when it all happened. Most of the things we see Obi-Wan go through happen when he's already a mature adult. But with Anakin, everything we've seen him go through happens when he is still developing and young. Some of the things that happen to him at these stages can be traumatic for him. A good example of this is losing his mom when he which plays from being taken away from her when he did as opposed to Obi-Wan who was as pepared as he could pobably get to lose Qui-Gon. Both cases still hurt a great deal, but I think Obi-Wan was better set to deal with it.
    It really does take a bit more than just listing what happened to who.
    You have to look at why it happened, how it happened, and when it happened to them.
    Good discussion though :)
  8. Arwen_Solo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2003
    There's alot of choices.

    Obi-Wan:

    He has suffered greatly by losing his master too early in his career and being made a Jedi Knight for the purpose of training "the chosen one".

    His padawan grew up to go against everything that he taught him was right and married a woman he told him that wouldn't be safe to trust.

    His student then turned into Vader and somehow left his pregnant wife. Obi-Wan had to see that she, Luke and Leia were protected and safe from Palpatine and Vader.

    He had to go through alot of hard things but I don't think he's suffered the most.

    He grew up in the care and structure of the Jedi Temple, and had a loving father figure in Qui-Gon Jinn until he was an adult.

    That alone makes him better off than most of all the characters.


    Padme:


    She grew up on a dream like planet with a loving and happy family. Padme was schooled well and eventually became a leader of her world.

    She however fell in love with the wrong guy and knew that marrying him was wrong and would only create serious problems. Padme married him knowing all this. So I don't think of her as suffering the most either. She had the choice not to suffer.



    Anakin: I would say he has suffered the most. His mother allowed him the choice to leave home at nine years old. Dispite their lifestyle, I don't think a young boy should have been given such a heavy right.

    He lost the constant in his life. I think that made it hard for Anakin to trust in people. Especially after putting his faith in Qui-Gon and him dying soon after. It made Anakin feel lost.

    He had Obi-Wan for guidence and love while growing up, but I don't think it was the same as his mother. He didn't have that strong bond with Obi-Wan.

    Anakin grew up regreting that he still couldn't see his mother. He always kept trying to go back to that lost support.

    Then he meets Padme again and found something he lost in her. He couldn't resist that relationship.

    The same with Palpatine. He couldn't resist that extra support from him either.








  9. SLR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    I think that is a good post Arwen. I think the inflexibility of the Jedi Council was a very big reason for Anakin's fall. The Jedi never saw the importance of modifying Anakin's training to compensate for the fact that he had not always lived in the Jedi Order, as most Jedi's do. THey should have been teaching him to control and deal w/ his emotions rather than suppressing them (Obi-Wan tells him AoTC: "Bury your feelings Anakin, your thoughts betray you").
    They also should have done little things such as freeing his mother and setting her up in a comfortable life and allow Anakin some contact w/ her. By just ignoring her and trying to get Anakin to do the same, they allowed an emotional trap to be developed for him. And w/ the fact that they were teaching him to suppress his emotions, when he fell in the trap he was ill prepared to handle the situation.
    I think Obi-Wan and Yoda learned from these mistakes and it is why they seem much more flexible w/ Luke. In RoTJ, Obi-Wan says something very similar to what he said to Anakin in AoTC about emotions. He said to Luke, "bury your feelings, they do you credit, but they could be made to use to serve the emporer". In this statement, I think Obi-Wan is trying to impart on Luke not to suppress his emotions but to control them. I think they realize that emotions and feelings are not bad in themselves, it is lack of control over them that is a problem.
  10. Trojan_Sock Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    Arwen_Solo

    " She however fell in love with the wrong guy and knew that marrying him was wrong and would only create serious problems. Padme married him knowing all this. So I don't think of her as suffering the most either. She had the choice not to suffer. "

    I can't believe you forgot that she had two children by this man, and had to hide herself and both children to the extent of separating one of them from herself to a completely different planet (though with family, and Beru suffered for that decision as well).

    Not to mention the fact that she suffers a rather ignominious, if not unknown fate, disappearing completely, never to be seen by her children again.

    "He said to Luke, "bury your feelings, they do you credit, but they could be made to use to serve the emporer". In this statement, I think Obi-Wan is trying to impart on Luke not to suppress his emotions but to control them."

    ...and perhaps Obi-wan is speaking from personal experience as well.

    BTW. Hi, That_Wascally_Droid! :)
  11. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    I can't believe no one has mentioned Luke...
    For example:

    Never knew his mother...

    He lost his aunt and uncle, the only family he knew at the time and saw their fried corpses.

    He lost his first mentor, Obi-Wan and saw him killed by Vader.

    Fell in love with Leia, to find out she's his sister :eek:

    Lost his hand fighting Vader.

    Found out his father is the most evilest villain in the universe...Vader.

    Felt betrayed by Obi-Wan for not telling him the truth about his father.

    Lost his second mentor, Yoda.

    His father betrayed him and turned him over to Palpy.

    Then his father died in his arms...

    And through it all Luke remained a Jedi, choosing death over turning to the dark side... He's the Man!! :cool:
  12. Trojan_Sock Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    "Fell in love with Leia, to find out she's his sister"

    If SW had taken place in Arkansas instead of GFFA, this would've been a happy ending! [face_laugh]
  13. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    H'lo TS :)

    What I think would be a fascinating study wold be to list most of the characters and see how each one suffered.
    I think we'd find that Palpatine, the most evil of all, suffered the least. Well, aside from random Jawa 327
    Interesting concept that... err the suffering aspect, not Jawa 327 :p
  14. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
  15. Ret Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 1999
    star 6
  16. Padawan_Jess_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2002
    star 4
    It's Obi-Wan by far that suffered the most. Many things have happened to him
    Don't forget all the things he went through in the EU, Jedi Apprentice series too. *SPOILERS* Qui-Gon never intially wanted him, and he was sent to Agricrops, and almost didn't become a Jedi
    His Master, the only father he has ever known, died in his arms, and he was powerless to stop it.
    He wasn't able to show his grief because he is a Jedi. He had to live with that immense sadness for who-knows how many years.
    His Master wasn't there to see his Knighting
    He had to train Anakin to furfill a death wish
    The said death wish was all talking about Anakin. Don't forget that Qui didn't say ONE word about Obi himself. It was all about Anakin.
    You can tell he didn't really like Anakin that much ( ;))
    Anakin keeps whining and saying "how ready he is" and that Obi-Wan is holding him back. It probably would hurt Obi if he knew his apprentice was saying that
    He has to see his padawan get his arm chopped off out of stupidity
    Anakin secretly gets married. Imagine the pain Obi goes through when he finds out about that [face_shocked]
    Anakin turns into Darth Vader
    He has to live on Tatooine for many years with thoughts of faliure running through his head
    Loneliness when almost all the other Jedi gets killed
    He sacrifices himself for Luke

    Although some of those things I mentioned where out of his own decisions, he is still suffering.

    People say that they can sympathize with Anakin killing the Tusken Raiders after his Mother dies. But what about Obi? When his Master died in his arms, did HE go out killing people? Obi was only about 4 years older than Anakin when his Master died- so the situation isn't that different. Okay, that was quite the long post! :D In conclusion, I just wanna say that I believe that Obi has the harder life. ;)
  17. MikeSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 4
    Leia...she only knew her mother when she was very very young.

    She is forced to watch her home planet, that she grew up on and loved be blown up...which kills Bail Organa the man she knew as her father. She can never go back to her home planet.

    She falls inlove with a smugggler who ends up being frozen and taken away to a huge crime lord.

    Then she finds out her brother is some guy she frenched on Hoth to top that off she finds out that her biological father is Darth Vader...the man the stood for everything she hated. Her father made her watch her home planet, which she loved so much, be destoried before her eyes...Then her father takes the man Leia loves and puts him in carbonite then lets a bounty hunter take him away.

    So I feel she suffered the most and dealt with it the best...she kept her cool even though everything in her life kept getting crazier n crazier.
  18. OurBenevolentLeader Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2003
    star 2
    C'mon, its Yoda!

    He saw most of those he helped train die at the hands of a trusted "friend", he saw the Republic he so valiantly protected for 700+ years disintegrate in a few short decades, and was forced to give up life as he knew it to hide out on a dingy planet in the midst of nowhere.
  19. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    If SW had taken place in Arkansas instead of GFFA, this would've been a happy ending!

    You bad, Trojan sock [face_laugh]
  20. KAKAMAN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2003
    star 1
    Yeah I'm with OurBenevolentLeader on this.
    Yoda has lived for almost a millenium. Regardless of how powerful he is with the force he can't see what's going on right under his nose. He must've felt the fall of the Republic was all his fault. Not mention the pain through the force when all those people all over the universe died.

    K
  21. MyEternalRest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 2
    Palpatine. Really, it is much more tragic to be an incarnation of evil by choice and never realizing you had made the wrong one.

    He did what he felt like he needed to, and, unfortunately for him, he never had a redemption. He never knew he needed one. He unknowingly blinded himself to the beauty of life. He did it unknowingly by thinking he knew what he was doing. He had suckered himself to believe and 'know' in his heart that he was the elite and that his motives and things neccesary to the becoming of those motives, were all that mattered and that to himself he was his own Force.(or god)

    Though he suffereed by his own fault and he deserves little sympathy, he still suffered.


  22. MyEternalRest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 2
    "Yoda has lived for almost a millenium. Regardless of how powerful he is with the force he can't see what's going on right under his nose. He must've felt the fall of the Republic was all his fault. Not mention the pain through the force when all those people all over the universe died."

    And for this entire mellenia he was always looking up....VERY fustrating I'm sure. :mad:
  23. YouAgain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2001
    star 5
  24. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    Yes, Anakin's childhood and young adult years seem troubled(at least up to the point of AOTC) due to either slavery or unrequited love. However his stint as Darth Vader didn't seem to reflect a man embittered and depressed UNTIL Luke Skywalker came into his life and began to tap into his heart and bring out the real Anakin.


    If C3PO could "feel" emotions then I would choose him as the most unfortunate character.
  25. MyEternalRest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 2
    "If C3PO could "feel" emotions then I would choose him as the most unfortunate character."

    If he had emotions I'll bet one of the first things he would do would be to change his name. How impersonal is a name like C3PO.
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