JCC Who is highest ranked?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Obi-Zahn Kenobi, Oct 2, 2012.

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Who is the highest ranked?

The Pope 7 vote(s) 21.9%
The Queen of England 9 vote(s) 28.1%
The President of the United States 6 vote(s) 18.8%
The Premier of China 0 vote(s) 0.0%
The President of Russia 1 vote(s) 3.1%
The Secretary-General of the United Nations 2 vote(s) 6.3%
The Dalai Lama 5 vote(s) 15.6%
The Grand Imam of Al-Azhar 0 vote(s) 0.0%
The Ayatollah 2 vote(s) 6.3%
The Prime Minister of India 0 vote(s) 0.0%
  1. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    I am wondering, who is the highest ranked of these people? I vote for the Pope, obviously.

    Since the Queen obviously outranks anyone in Commonwealth nations, I've left out their other important people.

    Sorry, I'm not culturally aware enough to hit on everyone important. I wanted to put the King of Saudi Arabia but ran out of room.
  2. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    you mean which one do we love most?
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  3. harpua Chosen One

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    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Queen Elizabeth II has the highest diplomatic rank out of all those named, and would therefore be first on the order of precedence.

    However, notionally, the Emperor of Japan--though not legally a head of state, or indeed anything at all, is still recognized as a head of state and therefore has the highest diplomatic rank of all. Aside from him, there are other monarchs (the king of Thailand comes to mind) who have reigned longer than Her Majesty the Queen, and are therefore higher on the order of precedence.

    The pope ranks as an ordinary monarchical head of state (currently) and given his relatively brief tenure on the Throne of St. Peter, he would rank behind Her Majesty the Queen.

    Prime ministers and premiers, as mere heads of government, rank below all heads of state. The secretary general has a relatively low rank, belonging just above ambassadors plenipotentiary, as he is not a representative of a sovereign power, but rather an international organ.

    (Of course, it must be emphasized that a nation's head of state ALWAYS ranks highest on the order of precedence in his or her own state--the rules I have provided above apply to foreign sovereigns and dignitaries).
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Oct 2, 2012
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  5. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

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    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    I immensely appreciate this post.
  6. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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  7. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 22, 2001
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    Me. Because I am the Bunny Shark.
  8. Condition2SQ Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    Wait, Jello, are you saying there is a codified international diplomatic ranking? Why would the Queen be ahead of other heads of state? Simply because of seniority?

    Also, on the list, I would say the Ayatollah is the closest to having plenary authority within his respective polity, so I would say him.
    Last edited by Condition2SQ, Oct 2, 2012
  9. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Ok, I would generally vote for Quix if that was an option here. Due to varying levels of rejecting the authority of several on that list.

    My ranking if we have to rank them somehow, is the following:

    Secretary-General of the UN
    President of US
    Prime Minister of India (these are close call, could change in the next few decades)
    Premier of China
    President of Russia

    Done.
  10. Condition2SQ Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    Secretary-General of the UN is an administrative duty with little real power. Putting him at the top is an idealistic, disingenuous gesture.
  11. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    There isn't really a metric involved that was listed as what we were supposed to use. So I don't see why it's disingenuous. It was just who's ranked higher. I ranked them. Secretary-General is ranked higher.
  12. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Of course there is. For thousands of years, people have fussed over who gets introduced to whom first, who sits where at banquets, etc.

    Well yes and no. Traditionally, monarchs have higher dignity than elected leaders, so yes, Her Majesty the Queen, by virtue of being a monarch, would rank higher than those who are not. Monarchs, remember, are sovereigns--the President of the United States merely represents the sovereign, but the Queen *is* sovereign. Within the same diplomatic rank, the order of precedence is determined by seniority.

    As current practice has it, seniority is the primary metric--in the case here, the same result obtains. All heads of state (as opposed to heads of government) are on the same rank--customarily. Many domestic orders of precedence still use the traditional schemata, where monarchs rank above presidents (consider, for instance, the seating at the Pope JPII's funeral).

    Domestic orders of precedence tend to incorporate the international standard when deciding who ranks where within the ranks of foreigners. However, the domestic head of state is always first, so a recently elected president will have precedence over a long-reigning emperor while the president is in his or her own country.

    edit: So we have a bunch of interplaying concepts here: dignity, diplomatic rank, and precedence. They're not synonymous of course though--in the above example, a title with a lower dignity and rank than a monarch nontheless has precedence.

    edit2: I loathe wikipedia, but it's good for lists, so here's a neat list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_by_diplomatic_precedence
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Oct 2, 2012
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  13. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    no "Your mom" option. Phhht.
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  14. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I think you all know who I voted for. And who you should vote for.

    EDIT: I guess I should clarify, are we talking about the offices in general, or their current office holders?
    Last edited by Jabba-wocky, Oct 3, 2012
  15. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Jello, I move that our Ambassador's list should permanently be topped by Lord John Marbury.
  16. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Neil deGrasse Tyson
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  17. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    The Secretary-General of the United Nations, because he is secretly engineering a plot to create the One World Government.
  18. PrincessKenobi New Films Manager of DOOM

    Manager
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    star 6
    You know I just voted for the one I thought had the best hat collection.
  19. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    The offices in general.
  20. Rew Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2008
    star 4
    Grimby.
    tom likes this.
  21. Violent Violet Menace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2004
    star 4
    So does this mean that Muammar Gaddafi would have been the highest ranked if alive, seeing as in 2008 he received the honorary title of "King of Kings of Africa"? :p If you're the king of kings you would necessarily be higher than an ordinary king. :p
  22. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Titles have to be recognized for them to count. :p
  23. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    Besides, "King of kings and Lord of lords" is already taken. ;)
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  24. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    I just went with who I thought had the most influence, which was a toss-up between the Pope, the U.S. President and the Chinese Premeire. HM the Queen has little real power, and the Dalai Lama has relatively little influence, so I nixed them. The Secretary-General SHOULD have the most power, but in reality has rather little. The President of Russia and the PM of India are close to the main ones in power but not quite there (though that could easily change for the Indian PM eventually). I struck down the U.S. President in the end because while they have a very wide range of influence they have severe checks on their power domestically. I eventually decided that while the Pope has little official power (HoS of a tiny nation) he has an enormous level of influence because he's got the highest rank (among the living anyway) for what is the largest religion in the world, so he has a HUGE amount of people who will listen to him simply on virtue of being the Pope.
  25. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Libya recognized it.