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JCC Who is highest ranked?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Obi-Zahn Kenobi, Oct 2, 2012.

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Who is the highest ranked?

  1. The Pope

    7 vote(s)
    21.9%
  2. The Queen of England

    9 vote(s)
    28.1%
  3. The President of the United States

    6 vote(s)
    18.8%
  4. The Premier of China

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. The President of Russia

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  6. The Secretary-General of the United Nations

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  7. The Dalai Lama

    5 vote(s)
    15.6%
  8. The Grand Imam of Al-Azhar

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. The Ayatollah

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  10. The Prime Minister of India

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Obi-Zahn Kenobi

    Obi-Zahn Kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 1999
    I am wondering, who is the highest ranked of these people? I vote for the Pope, obviously.

    Since the Queen obviously outranks anyone in Commonwealth nations, I've left out their other important people.

    Sorry, I'm not culturally aware enough to hit on everyone important. I wanted to put the King of Saudi Arabia but ran out of room.
     
  2. tom

    tom Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    you mean which one do we love most?
     
    PointGiven likes this.
  3. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Dave.
     
    JoinTheSchwarz likes this.
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Queen Elizabeth II has the highest diplomatic rank out of all those named, and would therefore be first on the order of precedence.

    However, notionally, the Emperor of Japan--though not legally a head of state, or indeed anything at all, is still recognized as a head of state and therefore has the highest diplomatic rank of all. Aside from him, there are other monarchs (the king of Thailand comes to mind) who have reigned longer than Her Majesty the Queen, and are therefore higher on the order of precedence.

    The pope ranks as an ordinary monarchical head of state (currently) and given his relatively brief tenure on the Throne of St. Peter, he would rank behind Her Majesty the Queen.

    Prime ministers and premiers, as mere heads of government, rank below all heads of state. The secretary general has a relatively low rank, belonging just above ambassadors plenipotentiary, as he is not a representative of a sovereign power, but rather an international organ.

    (Of course, it must be emphasized that a nation's head of state ALWAYS ranks highest on the order of precedence in his or her own state--the rules I have provided above apply to foreign sovereigns and dignitaries).
     
    MrZAP, Mar17swgirl, Everton and 3 others like this.
  5. Obi-Zahn Kenobi

    Obi-Zahn Kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 1999
    I immensely appreciate this post.
     
  6. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    PointGiven likes this.
  7. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    Me. Because I am the Bunny Shark.
     
  8. Condition2SQ

    Condition2SQ Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Wait, Jello, are you saying there is a codified international diplomatic ranking? Why would the Queen be ahead of other heads of state? Simply because of seniority?

    Also, on the list, I would say the Ayatollah is the closest to having plenary authority within his respective polity, so I would say him.
     
  9. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Ok, I would generally vote for Quix if that was an option here. Due to varying levels of rejecting the authority of several on that list.

    My ranking if we have to rank them somehow, is the following:

    Secretary-General of the UN
    President of US
    Prime Minister of India (these are close call, could change in the next few decades)
    Premier of China
    President of Russia

    Done.
     
  10. Condition2SQ

    Condition2SQ Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Secretary-General of the UN is an administrative duty with little real power. Putting him at the top is an idealistic, disingenuous gesture.
     
  11. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    There isn't really a metric involved that was listed as what we were supposed to use. So I don't see why it's disingenuous. It was just who's ranked higher. I ranked them. Secretary-General is ranked higher.
     
  12. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Of course there is. For thousands of years, people have fussed over who gets introduced to whom first, who sits where at banquets, etc.

    Well yes and no. Traditionally, monarchs have higher dignity than elected leaders, so yes, Her Majesty the Queen, by virtue of being a monarch, would rank higher than those who are not. Monarchs, remember, are sovereigns--the President of the United States merely represents the sovereign, but the Queen *is* sovereign. Within the same diplomatic rank, the order of precedence is determined by seniority.

    As current practice has it, seniority is the primary metric--in the case here, the same result obtains. All heads of state (as opposed to heads of government) are on the same rank--customarily. Many domestic orders of precedence still use the traditional schemata, where monarchs rank above presidents (consider, for instance, the seating at the Pope JPII's funeral).

    Domestic orders of precedence tend to incorporate the international standard when deciding who ranks where within the ranks of foreigners. However, the domestic head of state is always first, so a recently elected president will have precedence over a long-reigning emperor while the president is in his or her own country.

    edit: So we have a bunch of interplaying concepts here: dignity, diplomatic rank, and precedence. They're not synonymous of course though--in the above example, a title with a lower dignity and rank than a monarch nontheless has precedence.

    edit2: I loathe wikipedia, but it's good for lists, so here's a neat list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_by_diplomatic_precedence
     
    Mar17swgirl likes this.
  13. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    no "Your mom" option. Phhht.
     
    TheModFavorite likes this.
  14. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I think you all know who I voted for. And who you should vote for.

    EDIT: I guess I should clarify, are we talking about the offices in general, or their current office holders?
     
  15. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Jello, I move that our Ambassador's list should permanently be topped by Lord John Marbury.
     
  16. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Neil deGrasse Tyson
     
    VadersLaMent likes this.
  17. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    The Secretary-General of the United Nations, because he is secretly engineering a plot to create the One World Government.
     
  18. PrincessKenobi

    PrincessKenobi New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2000
    You know I just voted for the one I thought had the best hat collection.
     
  19. Obi-Zahn Kenobi

    Obi-Zahn Kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 1999
    The offices in general.
     
  20. Rew

    Rew Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Grimby.
     
    tom likes this.
  21. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace JCC Ravager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    So does this mean that Muammar Gaddafi would have been the highest ranked if alive, seeing as in 2008 he received the honorary title of "King of Kings of Africa"? :p If you're the king of kings you would necessarily be higher than an ordinary king. :p
     
  22. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Titles have to be recognized for them to count. :p
     
  23. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2000
    Besides, "King of kings and Lord of lords" is already taken. ;)
     
    darthhelinith likes this.
  24. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    I just went with who I thought had the most influence, which was a toss-up between the Pope, the U.S. President and the Chinese Premeire. HM the Queen has little real power, and the Dalai Lama has relatively little influence, so I nixed them. The Secretary-General SHOULD have the most power, but in reality has rather little. The President of Russia and the PM of India are close to the main ones in power but not quite there (though that could easily change for the Indian PM eventually). I struck down the U.S. President in the end because while they have a very wide range of influence they have severe checks on their power domestically. I eventually decided that while the Pope has little official power (HoS of a tiny nation) he has an enormous level of influence because he's got the highest rank (among the living anyway) for what is the largest religion in the world, so he has a HUGE amount of people who will listen to him simply on virtue of being the Pope.
     
  25. Obi-Zahn Kenobi

    Obi-Zahn Kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 1999
    Libya recognized it.