Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by darkchrono, Mar 4, 2013.
Hmmm, I thought Shaak Ti got owned by General Grievous--twice, while Obi-Wan managed to defeat him.
Based on the Crisis on Naboo Count Dooku was struggling to keep the upper hand against Anakin in their duel. At this point the only characters that would give Anakin a challenge are the Jedi Council, Dooku, Sidious and Ventress. He can't fight Sidious for obvious reasons and he has no reason to fight a council member to the death. And if angry enough he would probably kill Ventress in a duel. My point is who is their for Anakin to duel in the Clone Wars as of right now that would give him a challenge without the writers having to tone down his abilities?
Except maybe Maul?
I would pay to see Maul vs Anakin.
In answer to the original question of this thread, I think a common misconception is that lightsaber duels are entirely formulaic. As in a master always beats a knight, a knight always beats a padawan, and so on. It's true that the more experienced have an advantage in terms of technique and use of the force, but I like to believe that there's always a sense of unpredictability.
Regards to Obi-Wan, I think he's brilliant. He does seem weak- but that's his charm
I'm fine with TCW subverting expectation; circumstance can certainly shape the outcome of a fight. But it should not be whimsical or unaddressed. Nine times out of ten, a stronger, faster, more experienced fighter will defeat an inferior opponent. It is ridiculous to think that Barriss could hold her own against the order's great prodigy. Perhaps if it had been made clear that he was restraining himself, but if anything, Anakin looked angrier than ever.
He knocked her right of her high horse some anger powered darkside...
It was fairly obvious that Anakin didn't want to kill the one person whose confession of guilt could guarantee his Padawan's freedom. Paraphrasing someone else, he was fighting to capture someone fighting to kill.
His rage was far more obvious and visible than intent. This was not the behavior of a man in control of the situation.
Anakin needs more uber force showings, there aren't enough of those in TCW, it's outweighed by lightsaber action.
Well Anakin almost beat Dooku in Season 5 so I think he is just getting stronger. Possibly Barris became really powerful
Qui-Gon was a master who was killed by a Sith apprentice who was beaten by a padawan.
Dooku was a Jedi Master turned Sith who struggled more with a padawan than a Jedi Knight.
Coleman Trebor was a Jedi Council member who was taken out by Jango armed with a single blaster.
Savage Oppress lasted longer against Sidious than three Jedi Council members, etc.
I don't know why some would have a misconception. Luke wasn't even a Jedi yet per Yoda's words in ROTJ, and he bested Vader.
I think it's a combination of training and inherent force sensitivity. Rank I think denotes a person's mental maturity and adherence to the Jedi Code more than anything, it doesn't really say much for raw power. Anakin as a padawan had greater power than many knights or even some masters, but he still lacked the mental maturity to be given higher rank. Someone like Coleman Trebor might be the opposite. He might have showed outstanding dedication to the Jedi way, he might be a great diplomat who has prevented the outbreak of violence on many occasions, but maybe he just doesn't have as high of an aptitude for swordsmanship as some other Jedi do.
I mean, Yoda's 800+ years old and perhaps the wisest of the Jedi and also a great combatant. Mace Windu is like in his 40s and 50s and seems to rival Yoda in combat skill, though he seems to defer to Yoda's wisdom.
I don't know that rank is the best indicator of someone's skill in combat. Anakin and Barriss could both be knights, but Anakin is like the midichlorian all-star with an uncanny command of the Force, who knows about Barriss?
Also, I haven't read many novels but someone once told me that there is a novel in which Luke explains to his students that if they really apply themselves that they could achieve the same levels of power that Luke has, that it just comes more naturally to Luke, but that through intense training and study that others can still learn what he has learned, it will just be harder. I don't recall what the source was (or even if I was given the source at the time). But that kind of explanation appealed to me more than the notion that Anakin is going to be the best merely because of a high midichlorian count. That if Dooku weren't arrogant and really tried, he perhaps could have staid more powerful than Anakin, or that even if Barriss didn't have the same natural connection to the Force, that she could still potentially match Anakin through greater training.
Question - How is Yoda smarter than Windu? Last time I checked it was Windu who was wary of putting Anakin and Palpatine together and it was Windu who first noticed the Dark Side surrounded the Chancellor. While Yoda just sat there twiddling his thumbs or rubbing his head. No offense, but I really don't see yoda being smarted than Windu. More experience, yes. But Windu is smarter.
It also stood out to me that Anakin should have owned Barriss pretty quickly, especially at this point in the timeline.
Better writing should have included a few tricks or lucky occurrences that allowed Barriss to last, even if she was on the defensive.
It's not that it should be perfectly formulaic, there should just be some special cause to explain a strange result.
The reality is that they just don't worry about consistency in lightsaber duels, they focus on orchestrating an entertaing fight. It'd be better if they'd do both.
Windu also wanted to tell the senate that the Jedi were weakened and Yoda saw that as a bad idea, and when praising Obi-Wan's wisdom, Anakin compares him to Yoda. Yoda was also firmly against training Anakin because he had the clarity to see the danger of it. Yoda could sense Anakin's pain on Tatooine while Mace could not, etc.
I agree that superior training/experience would enable one to fend off Anakin, but Barriss lacked that as well.
Mace Windu was also strongly against training Anakin from the start....... While your examples are true, it's like comparing catching a cat to catching a lion. Knowing Sidious had the dark side, sensing a plot to destroy, and being wary of Anakin+Chancellor is far more important and meaningful that yoda's senses... And about Anakin's quote there. He also compares Obiwan's power to that of Windu's.... I'm certain you don't believe Windu is more powerful, so that kinda defeats the purpose am I right?
Mace got the upper hand over Sidious, Yoda did not. Mace also doubted the return of the Sith, Yoda was less skeptical.
I'm not saying there is some huge gap between the two. They are both roughly equal. But in the EU, Yoda is grand master of the order and rightly or wrongly, the Jedi usually defer to his judgement. Mace wanted Anakin to not get involved in Ahsoka's case, which likely would have resulted in Ahsoka being convicted and executed. Yoda gave him the chance.
I have noticed that Anakin always uses Force chokes to beat his enemies in the last time. Against Ventress and against Offee. His Force skills seem to have increased enourmos.
Thats an interesting point. I think Windu was not the strongest force user, but he beat Sidious in a lightsaberfight. Sidious seems to be not that good Lightsaber swordsman. He is a much better Forceuser. In ROTJ he talks not impressed (A bit butthurt) about Lightsabers. He clearly does not like them, because he did not manage them properly.
In ROTS he disarms Yoda with a Forcelightning. I think after the defeat against Windu, Sidious knew that Yoda would strike him down. After Yoda was disarmed the fight was already lost for him. I think Jedi only invented Lightsabers to deflect force lightnings of Sith Lords. That would make sense why Jedi think Lightsabers are their lifes.
I think they invented them to deflect blaster fire, because there are only 2 sith at a time, while there are potentially BILLIONS of blaster weilders at a time in the galaxy.
After Bane there was the rule of two.
Before there were many thousand sith warriors. There was a whole force sensitives war in the galaxy. Jedi dont have the ability to use force lightning, because of that they need something to deflect that attacks.
Blasters are easy to pull away with forcepush. Ahsoka beat the trandos without a lightsaber. Jedi dont need lightsabers against non force users.
I completely agree here...
@TaradosGon I can see your point. No question Mace was a complete idiot during this last arc, but everything prior to he was perfect. I believe Mace is stronger of course. I believe Mace has more thinking skills and is more street smart. While yoda is like a library, he has tons of knowledge and experience.
I found the powerlevel fine. It was pretty obvious Anakin held back so it is natural she would get the advantage sometimes. Plus Anakin simply hasn't reached his full potential yet.
Imo he only does that after the events of Dark Lord when he fully accepts his new role. It culminates in him fighting eight Jedi masters during the Purge and surviving.
On the ROTS novel it states that Anakin was worth a full squadron of jedi masters and when he got angry about not being ranked master after being at the council, the master were a tad afraid of his reaction.
That is what I remember of this. Not sure if its like that.