Saga Who Is the greatest lightsaber practitioner in the Star Wars saga?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Polydroxol, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2014
    star 4
    It's a hard choose but I would say either Darth Sidious or Mace Windu, Yoda and Obi-Wan come close to those two in lightsaber skill, this is how I at least look at it.
  2. TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2013
    star 2
    If I had to pick I would probably go with: (based solely by on screen)

    1. Mace
    2. Yoda
    B. Sidious
    4. Obi-Wan/Anakin/Dooku
    7. Maul
    8. Qui-Gon
  3. DarthIshyZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2005
    star 3
    I have a hard time with Yoda and his fighting style for two reasons.
    1. I don't like CGI. We see this guy walking... no, hobbling... up on a cane and suddenly he's flipping around like a buzzing bee? I feel like that was all just the computer geeks flexing their *ahem* muscles.
    2. In that style, you're constantly showing your back to your oponent. Maybe someone with martial arts training can shed some light on this, but I should think that would open you up for immediate defeat from someone paying some attention. Yes, a spinning move can add some power, but at what price?
    Plenty of others have discussed Mace, so I'm just going to say ditto. He clearly outmatched Sidious. Now, I agree that Sidious may have had some motivation to bring Anakin into it, but that really didn't come into play until after he was starting to be zapped by Mace. He was going full out when he defeated the other three Masters. He didn't need to let up when he had Mace in front of him. Sidious just got beat.

    Anakin is really very good. Agreed with a previous poster that his arrogance caused him to lose, and that more than once. Three times, actually. First in AOTC (lost an arm), second in ROTS (ended up a limbless crispy critter), the last time in ROTJ (to his son, who, although Luke used the dark side to do it, took advantage of Vader overstepping).

    As to Maul, he may be a good martial artist IRL, but reading the books makes him sound more lucky than anything else. He bumbles around, backing into victories and has to be rescued by Sidious in the end.

    Good points from others (and I am going to leave the EU characters out of this) so my ranking is:
    1. Mace Windu
    2. Sidious
    3. Anakin / Obi-Wan
    4. Qui-Gon / Dooku / Yoda
    5. Luke
    6. Maul
  4. Erkan12 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 3
    Agreed. :)
  5. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    1. Sidious
    2. Anakin
    3. Maul
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  6. SarlacsDinnerParty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2014
    I have to say Anakin Skywalker ,9
  7. The Supreme Chancellor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Whaa??! The guy get's his hand's cut off AT THREE DIFFERENT POINTS of the saga!

    I would have to go with Yoda or Mace Windu, both of whom seem to get the best of Palpatine in strict lightsaber combat.
    I wouldn't call it a game of chance but a game of match-ups. As we know there are various fighting styles, some with advantages over other. For instance Yoda's style requires a lot of explosive energy for all the acrobatics, and a duelist of his age may not be able to maintain that during a long drawn out battle like Anakin vs Obi-Wan.
    Last edited by The Supreme Chancellor, Aug 31, 2014
  8. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    The first time, he was fighting arrogantly and let his guard down, and had already been weakened by Force Lightning
    The second time, he lets his rage blind him and he made a horrible decision that he could have otherwise avoided while calm
    The third time, he was severely weakened due to the injuries he sustained two decades ago

    We never really see Anakin fighting at 100% of his potential, seeing as Palpatine had made an observation that Vader was not as powerful as he could be even before being injured
    Last edited by Seagoat, Sep 1, 2014
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  9. The Supreme Chancellor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    That is A LOT of excuses your making man. I know Anakin is meant to be super powerful, and he seems to be a capable duelist, but clearly nowhere near as capable as the other Jedi Masters in the films. IN HIS MIND he is the greatest, which is why he is defeated so often. In AOTC we see that he has trouble holding onto his lightsaber, not a trait fitting of a master duelist. As to your second point, we NEVER see Anakin acting calmly in a battle situation, outside of landing the ship during the Battle of Coruscant (after killing Dooku in a fit of revenge) he seems to lose his cool any time he is in battle, also not a trait of a master duelist. As for your third point, ironically when he is limited by his injuries, but learns to control his emotions he does actually win some duels (albeit against an old man and an untrained boy) but is clearly not on par with the level of mastery we see during the PT.

    If you still consider Anakin to be the best duelist in the saga, to each their own, but I find your choice mind boggling.
  10. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    My mind often boggles itself
  11. mratm23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2014
    star 3
    I know Mace is the greatest swordsman of all time, but I really can't imagine ROTS Anakin (before turning to the Sith) losing to him. I think Anakin could've beat Obi-Wan had it been before he bat-****.
  12. The Philosophical Owl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2014
    star 1
    Either Darth Vader, Obi-Wan, Palpatine or Yoda or Windu
  13. deadly jp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2014
    star 1
    Dooku is also one of the best lightsaber duelist too look how he fights, he uses one hand and puts his other behind him, he fights like a fencer thats what makes him look like a professional duelist. He can hold his own against two highly skilled duelist (Anakin and Obiwan) and look how old he is, dooku is badass.
  14. The Supreme Chancellor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Well Obi-Wan beat Vader, Vader beat Windu, Windu beat Sidious, Sidious beat Yoda, then Vader beat Obi-Wan..idunno.
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  15. Gen Rendar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2014
    star 1
    I think the thing that is a bit misleading, is the fact that the Jedi's force powers will always have an effect on their lightsaber skill.

    When talking about lightsaber combat it seems we try to separate force powers from saber skill, but to a degree they are connected. Yoda's preferred style of Lightsaber combat is Ataru, a style where you are constantly allowing the force to flow through your body. The same could go for Mace Windu's "shatterpoint" ability. Is it really fair to count some force abilities that improve saber combat, but not others? Does Windu's shatterpoint count as a "saber skill" while Palpatine's lightning does not?

    As others have said the environment and circumstances of the battle would also greatly effect the outcome.

    My overall impression is:

    1. Yoda - In a "fair" fight, I believe Yoda is the best. The only people we see him fight are Sidious and Dooku. Both times Yoda starts to use his lightsaber towards the beginning of the battle, and both times his opponents try to find a way to avoid continuing to duel him directly. When confronted by Mace Windu and 3 other Jedi Masters; Sidious confidently pulls out his lightsaber and reveals himself openly...however, when he first encounters Yoda, he attempts to run away.

    2. Darth Sidious - The theory behind the "rule of 2" is that each Sith will become increasingly more successful and powerful than the last(in theory). Sidious is the end result of years of the Sith passing on their knowledge and skill. While he seems to prefer using the force itself rather than his lightsaber, he clearly has great saber skills as well.

    3. Anakin Skywalker - by the time of episode 3, I believe Anakin is actually the most "balanced" as far as his saber skills. He has a good mix of all the styles and is able to adapt to the chaos of battle as is needed. His loss to Obi-wan is more based off arrogance and emotional judgement rather than his skill.

    4. Mace Windu - I think in a lot of ways, Mace has some advantages over Anakin. Mace does have a greater mastery of his own personal style and channeling of his emotions, however, I do not believe he is as flexible or adaptive.

    5. Count Dooku - Trained by both Yoda and Darth Sidious. Dooku is an interesting duelist, I think a lot of fans underrate him, in that regard.

    6. Obi-Wan - Now the thing about Obi-wan that makes him so hard to rate, is the fact that he probably has the best pure defensive skills of all the duelist. He can out last most people he fights which gives him a huge advantage. However, defense can only get you so far when dealing with the best practitioners in the galaxy. For Obi-wan to win against one of the top duelist, he would have to wait for the right opportunity or situation to give him the edge(as seen in his battle with Anakin). For the most part Obi-wan's abilities seem geared towards surviving or outlasting a battle, rather than winning one out right.
  16. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    Does it? I think that's an assumption. I've never seen proof that Force connectivity is linked to lightsaber skill at all. Rather the fact Han handles one suggests you don't need it.

    I still stand by my choice of Dooku. :D
  17. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Han uses a lightsaber once to cut open a tauntaun carcass, but that's hardly demonstrating any skill with it. I could pick up a samurai sword and cut open a dead animal, but that doesn't make me skilful or even competent with it.

    Given the almost superhuman skill the Jedi & Sith demonstrate with their lightsabers - deflecting blaster fire in particular - I would say that lightsaber skill is highly linked to Force power. Even the world's most highly skilled swordsman wouldn't be able to deflect bullets.

    And yes, General Grievous isn't a Force user, but he's largely a machine designed for combat.
  18. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    It still shows you don't require the Force to weild one, Nub. :)
  19. Exar Koon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2014
    star 1
    I see to much want for the users Favorite to be the best....

    To Answer this question you have to take many things into consideration, such as Combat form and the attributes given to them, pure technique, Force abilities, physical standing among other things so to begin let go with pure technique
    with technique i am musing only with blade work no strength, speed or endurance and from this stand point it would be a a tie between Dooku and Anakin considering Makashi and Shien/Djem So are the most viable forms of combat while most of the other require some connection with the force to master the forms these how ever do not and are practical in true sword play.
    The Form in perspective with in the Star Wars universe this a matter base on much more speculation now there are at least three forms that require a connection to the force form IV Ataru, Form VI Niman, and Form VII Juyo/Vaapad and give additional benefits along side their martial ones Niman being the most viable consider the lack of defense that and exhausting usage of Juyo and Ataru and Vaapad coming in second for Vaapad's need augment of your opponent needing to be a darksider and currently drawing on the drawing on the darkside. Considering the remainder of the forms...Shi-Cho is out in a dual it would be useless unless expanded upon and customized to the point of it becoming unrecognizable as Shi-Cho. Makashi would be very useful especially in the hands of Dooku, Soresu while admirable has no offense and would only be part of the of the battle. with Shien with offensive capabilities, Djem So takes the cake in a dual, not taking all these into consideration this ends with a three way tie between Sidious, Anakin, and Vader
    On Force powers is a cake walk Sidious with Yoda coming second
    physically Anakin hold as king he has strength, speed, and endurance.
    In the end if it is a tie between Darth Vader and His master

    (I kept Anakin and Vader separate)
  20. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    Interesting breakdown and well presented but it isn't simply who we like that factors into choice stated for all. Nothing wrong for those that answer either way. :) It's down to personal perception. There are very few 'facts' in SW.
  21. Exar Koon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2014
    star 1
    Your perceptions have been clouded by your limited use of the Force

    (thank you)
  22. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    If that is your view so be it. I still stand with my choice. :)
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    If the true speed of a blaster bolt is much slower than a bullet - then it might be easier.

    Didn't Vizsla deflect bolts once with the Darksaber? Or am I thinking of another TCW non-Force User?
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  24. Exar Koon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2014
    star 1
    No you are correct
  25. Prophet 49 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 2014
    What about Grievous? I mean, the guy collected dozens of lightsabers throughout his exploits and the War, which meant that he's bested dozens of Jedi. And we can't say that he had any type of backup from droids or guards, as we see that he prefers to fight the Jedi himself (Ep. III, and Chapter 20 of the CW miniseries) And none of his dueling skills were amplified by the Force, since he wasn't Force-sensitive. Sure he was killed halfway through Ep. III by Obi-Wan (and we don't see much dueling in the actual film by him), but much of that had to do with the precise arrival of the 212th and Obi-Wan's subsequent use of the Force. If we're going by pure swordsman skills, he should certainly be considered. I'm not saying he is the best, but this should provoke some thought.
    Personally, I think it's a toss up between Windu and Sidious. We never really got to know whether or not Sidious intentionally lost the duel to seduce Anakin. A rematch would clear that up pretty well.
    Last edited by Prophet 49, Sep 23, 2014