Discussion in 'Archive: Census and Games' started by General Kenobi, Mar 2, 2003.
OMG, I can't believe I left Ripken off. I couldn't leave that poll up like that. Sorry. Please use this one.
This is a really tough one. I went with The Wizard of Oz. His offense wasn't as bad as some remember (he improved a lot). He is arguably the greatest defensive SS.
Wagner's numbers still make a strong argument. Yount is my favorite (though his second MVP was in CF).
And any of the active players could easily surpass the others in career numbers by the time they are through.
This time I voted caL.
The Iron Man himself.
Still going with Ozzie Smith.
Was an All-Star long before he was in the game since the fans always voted Smith in. Ripken didn't even play his whole career at short.
Can't believe that some of these guys are on the list without Barry.
Being an O's fan my whole life, it would be a sin not to pick Cal.
Ozzie Smith. No questions asked. The man is amazing.
Cal rocks too tho
Ozzie Smith & Cal Ripken, Jr. No questions about it whatsoever, they rock!
Considering I live in MD about a half hour outside of Baltimore my whole life, it's without a doubt Cal Ripken, Jr.
Ozzie's the best defensively. Cal is one of the game's icons. A-Rod will be the best offensively.
One of the other baseball coaches at my school just named his new son Cal. Which, regardless of on-field talents, is IMO a better choice than Ozzie.
Ripken, no competition.
As an Orioles fan I say Cal Ripken, Jr. He was simply the best shortstop in the game from 1983-1996, regardless if it wasn't his whole career. His defense was great, however under rated (Only 2 gold gloves), his bat was the best at the position, and then lets not forget that he probably is the most amazing baseball player in the last quarter of the 20th century. His streak was the most significant moment in the sport since Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's homerun record.
i voted for A-Rod because i think he'll end up surpassing Ripken as the greatest.
Ripken had durability, class and productivity. rodriguez may pass him in the last category, tie him in the second, and fall utterly short in the third (at least in terms of consecutive games played streaks).
who can pass on the Iron man?
Gotta go with Ripken at this point.
I gave the vote to Wagner since his numbers are pretty great. My personal favourite of all time is Tony Fernandez, quite possibly the greatest Blue Jay (don't laugh) of all time. I'd take him over Ripken any day.
"His streak was the most significant moment in the sport since Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's homerun record"
Are you serious??? . A streak of durablity compared with one based on skill is quite a bit different. Cal Ripken and his streak are both extremely overrated. Streaks like his are detremental to the team and quite self serving. Rest is needed over the course of a 162 game schedule.
Honus Wagner of course.
My personal favourite of all time is Tony Fernandez, quite possibly the greatest Blue Jay (don't laugh) of all time.
Easily the best shortstop the Jays have had, but the best player to ever where a Blue Jay uniform is Roberto Alomar (in his prime of course, fortunately that was when he was a Jay ).
Wagner, and it's not close. Not only is he one of the greatest players of all time, he is also the widest margin winner; that is, comparing each shortstop to shortstop, 1st baseman to 1st baseman. Wagner's distance from the no. 2 shortstop is wider than Babe Ruth with any outfielder, Johnny Bench from any catcher, or Mike Schmidt from any third baseman.
Out of all the baseball positions, only the shortstop should make everyone answer the same when asked the greatest player, and it's Honus Wagner.
A streak of durablity compared with one based on skill is quite a bit different. Cal Ripken and his streak are both extremely overrated. Streaks like his are detremental to the team and quite self serving. Rest is needed over the course of a 162 game schedule.
I wouldnt say its overrated, matter of fact alot of the legendary greats played their schedules like Cal Ripken. You can't say him or Gehrig were overrated, they played alot of games and produced good numbers (though Gehrig is better). What I find self serving isnt either Gehrig or Ripken, it is the player making seven figures a year, and going on the DL over a papercut so they wont lose that extra mil at the end of the season. Players just dont hussle anymore, its all about me, me, me. One reason why no one really steals bases anymore, they can get hurt sliding.
There's no question that Wagner's numbers are fantastic, and far ahead of his peers. But remember that he played 90-100 years ago, in a different (dead ball) era. There are few, if any, alive who saw both him and Ripken or Smith play. So comparisons get reduced to statistics, and that leaves too many factors unaccounted for. It's not quite like comparing apples and oranges, but perhaps like comparing Macintosh with Golden Delicious.
Also: Ripken's amazing Iron Man streak is in addition to the great performances and numbers he put up during his career. Ripken's streak got magnified because he broke Gehrig's record the year after a very bad strike, and it gave baseball of joyous, hopeful event. But I would not say it causes him to be overrated. He was no ordinary player, but an MVP and perennial All-Star.