Who is the Hero- Luke or Anakin?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Emperor_Billy_Bob, Feb 9, 2003.

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  1. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    Is the true hero of the Star Wars saga Anakin Skywalker or his son Luke?

    In my opinion it is Luke. Without his purity and bravery, the Galaxy would have forever been under control of the Sith and the Emperor. Anakin may fit the role of a tragic hero, but his dark exploits make me think twice before praising him as the savior of a galaxy, in the way Luke was.

    Anyway, what do you guys think?
  2. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I would have to agree with you. It was left up to Luke and the Rebellion to fix what Anakin and Palpatine destroyed. I think Luke is the true hero of the Saga, while Anakin is the tragic hero.
  3. WellKnownCharacter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 2
    Definately Luke. Anakin never really does anything that makes him 'heroic'. I mean there are moments but then his murder spees probably cancel those out. But if you think about it Anakin and Luke are kind of the same person. This is why I beleive the PT adds considerably to the OT as viewers will be interested to see if Luke can put aside the temptations that his Father gave into.
  4. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    Now, now. Anakin does do heroic things- he saves Luke's life, but he is saving his son. The fact that he ruthlessly murders his own officers imbalances the whole moral issue, despite what some say.

    Anakin gets off from his crimes fare too easily- a hero doesn't kill in cold blood or prey on those weaker than he is, and a hero also doesn't betray his friends.
  5. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Who the hero is isn't really the concern of the saga. It's who completes the Prophesy, and how it is done. Luke helps Anakin fulfill the Prophecy. Anakin is a tragic hero. It's the American audience's unfamiliarity with this concept that makes them focus on Luke as a hero, when that's not the point of the saga at all. You are not seeing the forest for the trees.

    Here are some examples...

    Tragic Hero

    MacBeth

    King Saul

    Now, you are certainly welcome to interpret the films any way you please, and you can have your "heroes", but Lucas did take his ideas from classic literature, among other sources.
  6. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    Anakin is the hero of the saga. The tragic hero. You could call Luke the hero of the OT. But Anakin is the hero of the saga plain and simple. You guys need to keep in mind that Luke would have also been seduced to the DarkSide if it were not for Yoda. That's the whole point. Anakin and Luke represent the flaws that we all carry with us. Also, keep in mind that Vader could have easily killed Luke in TESB if he wanted to. And he wasnt even trying all that hard. But, b/c of the love for his son, instead of destroying him, he asked Luke to join him. Hopefully, Anakin will help prove my point by kicking some serious butt in the last Clone War during episode 3.
  7. Master-Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 5
    I agree with Emperor_Billy_Bob,Luke is my Hero :)
  8. NiktosRule Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2001
    star 4
    Luke is clearly the hero. Anakin helps destroy the Galaxy while Luke saves the galaxy. Anakin does kill Palpatine but only because of Luke.
  9. Blast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 3
    This is a tough one.Luke turned Vader back but Anakin tossed the emperor off his thrown but in the end I would say Luke is the hero because Anakin went to the darkside while Luke resisted it and Luke was not a agent of evil as was Anakin/Vader.
  10. GRANDADMIRALAXLROSE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 7
    They wer both heros in thier own rights, its a matter of oppinion who is the biggest hero.

    Axl.
  11. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    But Anakin went through a lot more trauma than Luke did. And Luke had the advantage of being trained by Yoda. If it were not for Yoda, Luke would have also gone to the DarkSide.
  12. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Anakin is a tragic hero. It's the American audience's unfamiliarity with this concept that makes them focus on Luke as a hero,

    Now come on MeBeJedi. We had this debate over on this thread in the CT forum, and the reasons people gave for treating Luke as the hero of the saga had nothing to do with their lack of familiarity with the concept of the "tragic hero".

    If I had to pick one hero, Luke or Anakin, I'd pick Luke every time. He helps save Leia, Han and the whole rebel alliance, risks his life time and time again battling the Empire, and even manages to (somewhat) redeem his father who had seemingly been lost to the dark side, which in itself an act of heroism that makes throwing an old guy down a shaft pale into insignificance.




  13. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "an act of heroism that makes throwing an old guy down a shaft pale into insignificance. "

    Your comparison, not mine. Had the Emperor lived, the rebellion would have been crushed. Had Vader not acted, Luke would be dead. You cannot deny these facts. It's not a question of how many good things or bad things a person does...it depends on the pivotal things that a person does.

    "If I had to pick one hero"

    Redemption and the means of receiving it is what these films are about, not simply good guys versus bad guys. Broaden your horizons a little. Your answer only makes sense if you choose to ignore the major themes in the SW saga.
  14. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    I'm with Luke. I always think a hero is someone that stands up and helps other people without asking for reward, and especially when they face there fears. Lukes went and fought Vader and Palpatine to help the Galaxy and to save his father. He put himself at risk to save other people. Anakin may have blown up a TF starship, but that was fluke and unintentional. I feel that Luke is the real hero.
  15. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    but isnt that what Anakin does in TPM? Giving without any thought of reward. Thats what he did in the race. Quigon says it himself. He also helps his mother in episode 2, and he wanted badly to help Obiwan on GEONOSIS. Also remember that he saves Obiwan from Dooku.
  16. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Lukes went and fought Vader and Palpatine to help the Galaxy and to save his father."

    But you are only partially correct. Luke didn't go to fight his father, and repeats this over and over. He does defend himself against his father, but continually backs away from him to prevent hurting him. Luke goes to the Death Star simply to convert his father, nothing more. He even admits to the Emperor that "soon I'll be dead, and you with me."

    It's not until Vader threatens Leia that Luke finally gives up on his father and attacks to defend his sister, though this brief dabble with the Dark Side doesn't last long, and Luke regains his senses. Everything Luke does affects his father on an emotional level.

    "He put himself at risk to save other people. Anakin may have blown up a TF starship, but that was fluke and unintentional."

    Well, that's your interpretation. Fact is, his skills as a pod-racer, as well as his connection with the Force, allowed him to do this. It only seemed unintentional because Anakin did it without malice, further demonstrating his "innocence."

    "but isnt that what Anakin does in TPM? Giving without any thought of reward."

    Exactly. Anakin was good, and made poor choices. The point of the films is that no one is completely good, or completely evil. It is the nature and duality of man that is being presented here.

    When I first saw Star Wars, all I remembered was the "evil" Darth Vader and the space ship battle. As I grew older, subsequent viewings showed that the SW films had themes that worked on many levels, both for children and adults.

    While I don't mean this as sarcasm, I do have to say that focusing on "who's the hero" shows a child's level of understanding, or at least focus, of the films. Anakin was always destined to be a "hero" (I'll use the simplistic term) and in the end, Anakin finally understood his mistakes, and made the decision to right his wrongs the only way he knew how. In doing so, he committed the ultimate sacrifice for his children. This act took guts, and has meaning for some people. For others, well.....
  17. Mara_Jade_Fan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    Anakin may be the "Chosen" one but I have always believed, and will always believe, that Luke is the true hero of the saga. Luke was his father's redeemer. Without Luke, Vader would not have had the courage/strength/desire to kill the Emperor. Without Luke, Vader would have continued down the evil path he was on. Because of Luke, Vader was redeemed and was able to fulfill his destiny of bringing balance to the Force by killing the Emperor.
  18. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Had the Emperor lived, the rebellion would have been crushed.

    Yes, so it's a good job that the Rebellion had that little contingency plan to blow up the Death Star with the Emperor on it in their back pocket, isn't it?

    Had Vader not acted, Luke would be dead.

    True.

    It's not a question of how many good things or bad things a person does...it depends on the pivotal things that a person does

    Well, that might be the standard by which you judge heroism, but it isn't mine. Even so, the fact is I'd say many of Luke's acts were incredibly pivotal (the destruction of the first Death Star and the crucial part he played in Anakin's "redemption").

    Redemption and the means of receiving it is what these films are about, not simply good guys versus bad guys.

    Yes, and in case you hadn't noticed, Anakin is redeemed through the love of his son. In fact, maybe you need to go back and read my post again because, far from "ignoring" the fact that redemption is an important part of the SW saga, I actually pointed out how important it was and how highly I rated Luke's acts in redeeming his father.

    Broaden your horizons a little. Your answer only makes sense if you choose to ignore the major themes in the SW saga.

    MeBeJedi, I do wish you keep the personal comments about my intelligence to yourself in the future. I don't appreciate being told that my views are based on ignorance or an inability to broaden my horizons.

    My answers make perfect sense if you do the following things:

    1) Read them thoroughly
    2) Remember that my opinions don't have to match yours.
  19. OBI-GYN_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 3
    Why must there be ONE hero?

    Didn't Han save Luke's life twice?

    Does that make him the ultimate hero since without him saving Luke's life, how can Luke be the hero?

    Why can't they all be heroes?

    Well, we can make Luke a Hero First Class & Anakin can be a Buck Hero. :D


    BTW, MebeJedi: You lost me on King Saul being a 'tragic hero'. A tragic failure, yes. A hero? no. I seem to recall he killed himself at the end of a defeat in battle & lost the kingship.


  20. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
  21. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    " 1) Read them thoroughly

    I do, actually.

    What I see is a consistent need to degrade any acts that Vader made, in favor of Luke. It's quite clear to me that your bias in favor of Luke drives your arguments. To consider Vader's act of throwing Palpatine down the reactor well a pale, insignificant fact shows your inability to accomodate the duality of Vader's personality.

    If you are that desperate to have a hero in your life, then just sit back, eat your popcorn, and enjoy the film. At the end of the saga, you can clap and cheer all you want.

    2) Remember that my opinions don't have to match yours.

    Never said it had to, to my knowledge. I simply don't agree with your simplification of the events of the films. You make it sound like Luke did everything singlehandedly, when his ass was saved several times by almost every major character in the film (twice by Han and Vader!). On his own, Luke is nothing, and without his father, Luke learns nothing. It's the interdependance of the characters on each other that drives the films. This is, and always has been, my point.

    This hero worship just gets really old, and diminishes the "timelessness" and integrity of the films.

    " ::applauds Jenx::"

    Thanks for proving my point.
  22. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    ::worships MeBeJedi as an intellectual because he wastes hours analyzing movies::

    So, If I were to kill several people, betray my best friends to their death, helped to lead a Government takeover that costs billions of people their lives, and then saved my son from Death, then I would be a "tragic hero" too, right?
  23. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "::worships MeBeJedi as an intellectual"

    As previously stated, " This hero worship just gets really old"

    Talk about not reading posts...

    "he wastes hours analyzing movies:: "

    Actually it doesn't take that long, though mileage obviously varies between individuals. I take it this means that you've watched the films only once? It's amazing that you can do this and yet completely understand the movies as well as you purport to do.

    " So, If I were to kill several people, betray my best friends to their death, helped to lead a Government takeover that costs billions of people their lives, and then saved my son from Death, then I would be a "tragic hero" too, right?"

    Again, another repost. "I simply don't agree with your simplification of the events of the films." Straw-man arguments are a waste of time. To answer your question, I guess that, if I were to use "tragic" or "hero" to describe you, "hero" would definitely be my second choice.
  24. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    What I see is a consistent need to degrade any acts that Vader made, in favor of Luke.

    Hey, I give Vader all the credit for helping to destroy the Jedi and enslave the galaxy.

    It's quite clear to me that your bias in favor of Luke drives your arguments.

    Err, no. I have come to the conclusion that Luke is a hero based on his actions, and that Anakin is a rather pathetic character based on his actions. No bias, no prejudice.

    To consider Vader's act of throwing Palpatine down the reactor well a pale, insignificant fact shows your inability to accomodate the duality of Vader's personality.

    And there you go again, telling me how I think and assigning my beliefs to an inability to "percieve" things that you can.

    I fully understand the "duality" in Vader's character. I just believe that helping to redeem a man who has been lost to the dark side for a few decades is more heroic then picking up a guy who is lost to the dark side and throwing him down a shaft.

    If you are that desperate to have a hero in your life, then just sit back, eat your popcorn, and enjoy the film. At the end of the saga, you can clap and cheer all you want.

    Stop. Seriously, stop the personal comments. Now.

    I simply don't agree with your simplification of the events of the films. You make it sound like Luke did everything singlehandedly,

    You claim you've read my posts thoroughly, yet you now say that I'm making it "sound like Luke did everything singlehandedly", which I haven't said. I haven't said anything close. In fact, once again, if you go back and read my posts you'll see the part where I mentioned the Rebellion's plan (successfully carried out) to blow up the Death Star.

    On his own, Luke is nothing, and without his father, Luke learns nothing.

    And you accuse me of simplifying Star Wars?




  25. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    "Again, another repost. "I simply don't agree with your simplification of the events of the films." Straw-man arguments are a waste of time. To answer your question, I guess that, if I were to use "tragic" or "hero" to describe you, "hero" would definitely be my second choice."

    Should Anakin be exempt from the choices he made, is he above morality because he is "the tragic hero"?

    He is a villain.

    Flaming is against the TOS by the way. You only reason you haven't been caught on it is probably because ha;f the mods can't understand you.
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