Lit Who is the rightful heir to the Imperial Throne?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by comradepitrovsky, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. comradepitrovsky Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2017
    star 2
    Now, as the title implies, there are a variety of claimants. First, of course, we have Palpatine's niece, Ederlathh Pallopides. However, she's likely descended from Palpatine's father's mistress, as good old Sheev killed his siblings and mother. Anyway, she's a woman, and the Empire isn't big on them. Non-huMan after all. The next options would be the Emperor's only son, Triclops, and his grandson, Jedi Prince Ken. However, one's a crazy mutant, and the other is . . . well, he's Ken.

    Now, these assume that the Imperial Throne is based on blood inheritance. It could be argued that is based on the Baneite Sith line, with Apprentice following his slain master. In which case there are two real claimants for that honor. Lumiya's line (which seemed to be the one followed in canon, with Carnor Jax taking the title Emperor for a while) would be the first. The second would be Luke Skywalker, who, in Baneite tradition, fell to the Dark Side and selw his master in Dark Empire.
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  2. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    The Imperial Senate has to vote a new Emperor.

    Simple.

    :)

    Which they almost did in Bloodline!

    EMPRESS LEIA THE FIRST!
  3. SheaHublin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2008
    star 2
    Might makes right, in practice.

    Legally speaking, though, the claim could belong to either the next Dark Lord of the Sith, or by blood to the next head of House Palpatine. While (Cosinga) Palpatine (II) had killed his immediate parents and siblings, he is known to have had other relatives alive into the time of the Empire. His remote grand-nice Ederlathh Pallopides and his third-cousin Volpau, are known by name, and the "Imperial Family" has been known of for decades now thanks to the old Marvel comics. It had to have had enough surviving members for it to have even been possible to marry into, as the Tagges had indicated. There's also another, much more obscure (due to fan ignorance) of reference from Children of the Jedi, in which Leia has fears that a certain world would be exploited by relatives of the Emperor in a manner that makes it clear there are such relatives and that it has happened before. So basically, take stock of the known suriving members of the Imperial Family, and see whichever is most closely related to the late Emperor.

    Where things get interesting is how the Byss clones would be treated, legally. Are they legally the Emperor? If they are inhabited by his spirit, if that can even be proven legally, do they have the closest legal claim to head the Empire and House Palpatine? Even if so, can the claim be constested on grounds of insanity?

    The question also arises as to when House Palpatine stopped being the Imperial Family- as that role was filled by the Fel Family/ House Fel eventually. Was House Palpatine ever officially designated the Imperial Family, or was the Imperial Family simply whoever the relatives of the current Emperor were? Authors can have some real fun with this when production of new books in the EU is resumed.

    And, for fun, the line from CotJ:

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  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    In canon, it appears to be Mas Amedda, but no one off of Coruscant seems to care.
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  5. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I feel like GL meant for Sheev to be the last of his bloodline.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jan 11, 2017
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  6. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    That being said, I always liked the concept of an "Imperial family." Of course, these would only be third- to tenth-degree relatives (because it's a good thing, plot-wise, that Palpatine doesn't have parents or siblings anymore). Nevertheless, I can see three categories of Imperial relatives: those who fully support the Empire and take advantage of their kinship with the Emperor, those who, out of disgust and horror, decided to become freedom fighters, and those who only support their cousin out of cowardice.
  7. MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Whoever pays me enough for me to be on their side.


    But seriously, it was supposed to be the Senate that decided, but the rules never got updated since Palpatine planned on living forever....soooooo....kind of a legal void there. "Rightful" is going to depend entirely on personal interpretation.
  8. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    On a serious note, is it supposed to have been a hereditary monarchy?
  9. Darth_Elu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2003
    star 6
    As @MercenaryAce said, the 'supposed to' was nothing really. Palpatine planned on living forever and being Emperor for all time. Period.

    But technically speaking, yes, it became a void and thus the Senate is meant to vote in the next Emperor. And yet, had Palpatine/Sidious planned on the event of him failing his quest for immortality (in any form) or for some reason actually accepting mortality and never planning for immortality (yeah, right but this is hypothetical) then I would have to say logically speaking…You are correct @Charlemagne19. I think he would intend it to become a hereditary monarchy as in those scenarios, his pride accepts enough objectivity to realize he may fail in his ultimate quest. That said his pride only goes that far, the next best scenario to him upon his hypothesized (and ultimately reality) death for an egotistical individual such as himself would be to at least keep it in the family so that way the name Palpatine would live on "forever" through proxy on the Imperial Throne.

    It is an impossibility in my mind that he would consider anything less, being who he is.
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  10. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    To be fair, Canon!Palpatine doesn't seem (as far as we've seen) to have as much immortality back-up plans as is Legends counterpart. After all, in canon, the Emperor died and... that's it. In Legends, he came back, because he had considered the possibility he might die.
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  11. Darth Caliban Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2015
    star 3
    If Darth Vader was supposed to be Palpatine's heir, wouldn't Luke or Leia not be the next in line for the throne?
  12. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Well, I don't think Palpatine considers his Naboo family his peers. They're Forceless, which might as well make them cattle or sheep as far as he's concerned.
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  13. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Was Ederlathh a child of Palpatine's cousin or something? It seems she was fairly distant familially speaking to him.

    As for Succession-Sate Pestage, Mas Amedda, Isard, Thrawn, the Council. Lumiya I don't think in 4 ABY had the desire or the necessary oomph to get it.

    Remember in Legends at least Palpatine left the rules for succession vary vague and complicated-which makes sense for two reasons 1. He encouraged infighting, rooted out the weak and provided hoops for his servants to jump through. 2. He never seriously considered a successor he wanted to eventually become immortal and eventually conquer the universe and rule forever as a dark and malevolent God-sort of like how he was treated on Byss just by everybody though.
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  14. Darth Caliban Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2015
    star 3
    As a sith, i don't think family mattered for Palpatine and the military and the imperial court were just tools for him. I believe the only person who could be considered for him worthy of the title of emperor was his apprentice.
  15. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Then Vader or Luke or Leia would have had to do. Maybe Mara or Lumiya in alternate timeline could have been it.
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  16. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    HHC™
  17. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    Hand Held Computer? Hereditary hemochromatosis? Hip Hop Congress? Hispanic Health Council?
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  18. Anedon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2016
    star 4
    Well I guess the problem with that question is that people will have different opinions on the matter. Its the same in ASOIAF with who the true monarch of Westeros is.
    As for Palpatine, he might still have family relatives that are alive, who could make a claim I suppose. And in some versions he had concubines so me might have children somewere. Or appart from his family there could be a political heir, like Sate Pestage or a spiritual in form of another Sith/Darksider.

    Who knows, there is no true answer to this.
  19. Matthew Trias Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    It depends upon the constitution of the Empire. Legally speaking, if there is no clause allowing the Senate to come into session after the Emperor suspended it for "the duration of the emergency", then it is permanently stuck in limbo since only the Emperor could call it back into session.(well, presumably that would be the case)

    If the senate is stuck in limbo, then legally no one could ever choose another Emperor. Just as it was the case for empires in real life, it is probably the case that the entire legal "essence"( for lack of a better word in the short amount of time I have to write this) is tied up in the Emperor. The state itself is in the Emperor. He destroyed the Republic and made sure the Empire would not survive without him as well, by banishing the Senate into the Shadow Realm. :p
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  20. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    Human High Culture!
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  21. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    Ah yes, of course.
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  22. Kenobi098 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2013
    star 1

    Westeros Is pretty clear cut, Dany is rightful ruler unless Jon is somehow legitimate( as a Legitimate Son of Rhaegar would come before Rhaegars siblings According to westerosi law per the World of Ice and Fire book), after That it would possibly be Gendry if legitimized due to his targaryen great grandma(King Robert was able to molify Targ loyalists due to his Grandmother being the daughter of Aegon the Unlikely).

    With Palps its up in the air in new canon, it was almost definitely Vader but they died together so who knows, Mas Ameeda is a possiblity but he is both non human and possibly dead by ROTJ. The power vacuum was the reason the old EU had a whole era of the rebels fighting Imperials who went warlord.
  23. Anedon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2016
    star 4
    @Kenobi098 Is she? The rightfull ruler is Aegon VI. And even if we don't count him there is a law that forbids women to sit on the iron Throne as long as there is a male relative remaning. So the heir would technicaly be Doran Martell, Aegons uncle and Rhaegars brother in law.
    Also are the Targaryens legitimate? They ursurped the power from several other Kings, so if you count them you also have to count the Baratheons as legitimiate and thus Stannis would be the rightfull King.
    So there are several persons who could make a somewhat legitimate claim, Dany is just one of them.
    Please take not I said ASOIAF not GoT.
    Last edited by Anedon, Jan 11, 2017
  24. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Wasn't that more of a custom than a law - with The Dance of Dragons being the war that made sure the custom didn't stick?


    Since Rhaenyra's claim ended up being validated after her death, passed through to her son, with him inheriting and becoming Aegon III?
  25. comradepitrovsky Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2017
    star 2
    Her grandmother was Cosinga Palpatine's mistress, I believe.