Who is the story really about???

Depa Gollum does not save the day- he does not give up the ring willingly if anything he is the last antogonist/threat to the distruction of evil and Frodos betrayal in Mt. Doom is part of this as well. They are the CATALYST- Samwise Gamgee is the main protagonist of The Lord of the Rings which is why we see his life after his ordeal and the ending of the story(life back in the shire) revolves around him.

just like we see the funeral pyre of Darth Vader and Anakins inclusion into the living force(ghost) at the end of ROTJ- the MAIN protagonists fate is always CONCLUDED at the end of it.
What happens to Luke or Leia or Han or Lando? well they have a celebration thats for sure but thier ultimate fate is not given.

why?

because they are not who the story arc revolves around!

The Star Wars Saga is about the rise and fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.
period.


all too easy

 

I think your focus is too narrow. Why can it not be about multiple characters? We see Luke's entire story arc, Anakin's entire story arc and Ben's entire story arc.

They all three play Jedi. They all 3 play heroes, though one tragic. We see all three in the final scene and an end to their journey. All three are central roles and all three fit into Campbell's various hero descriptions.

 

Depa Gollum does not save the day- he does not give up the ring willingly if anything he is the last antogonist/threat to the distruction of evil and Frodos betrayal in Mt. Doom is part of this as well. They are the CATALYST- Samwise Gamgee is the main protagonist of The Lord of the Rings which is why we see his life after his ordeal and the ending of the story(life back in the shire) revolves around him.

just like we see the funeral pyre of Darth Vader and Anakins inclusion into the living force(ghost) at the end of ROTJ- the MAIN protagonists fate is always CONCLUDED at the end of it.
What happens to Luke or Leia or Han or Lando? well they have a celebration thats for sure but thier ultimate fate is not given.


So, you argue that Sam is the main protagonist in LOTR, but that Luke isn't in Star Wars.

Why can't it be both Sam and Frodo in Lord of the Rings?

If anything, Sam takes the role of Luke in LOTR, as after Frodo has sailed off and left our world, and after Gollum has been destroyed - just as Darth Vader was destroyed - Sam is the last hero that remains and is focused on until the closing shot, like Luke.

The story focuses much more on Frodo than it does on Sam up until the last third of the saga. In Star Wars, the focus also shifts between Anakin and Luke, and even onto Obi-Wan at times.

When Frodo sails off at the end, that scene can draw a parallel to Anakin looking on at Luke at the end of ROTJ. It's the final goodbye from one hero to another as they go along their separate paths. Anakin leaves our world, and Luke stays in it.

 

There is also that whole King guy too

 

i see your points Hudnall and All Powerfull. And if you think about it maybe Qui-gon and Gandalf are the main protagonists after all it is they who set in motion the events that lead to the destuction of the evil in thier respected stories.


I still think Star Wars as a whole is about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker


All too easy

 

Gollum does not save the day- he does not give up the ring willingly if anything he is the last antogonist/threat to the distruction of evil and Frodos betrayal in Mt. Doom is part of this as well.

Actually, Golum does save the day, even though he does not do it willingly. If not for Golum, the One Ring would have continued to exist, Sauron would not have died, Aragorn and company would have perished, and who knew what else would have happened.

They are the CATALYST- Samwise Gamgee is the main protagonist of The Lord of the Rings which is why we see his life after his ordeal and the ending of the story(life back in the shire) revolves around him.

No, Samwise Gamgee is a sidekick. He is an important sidekick, but he is still a sidekick. It's the same for Aragorn and the rest of the Fellowship as well. It's Frodo's story. He is the one who suffered the most, and he is the one who takes it upon himself to destroy the One Ring.

The ending isn't simply Sam's, but rather everybody's. We see Aragorn wedding Arwen. We see Faramir and Eowyn getting together. We see the Elves leaving. We see a bunch of other things. (It's been a long time since I read the books, so I'm partly basing my explanations on the LOTR movies.)

just like we see the funeral pyre of Darth Vader and Anakins inclusion into the living force(ghost) at the end of ROTJ- the MAIN protagonists fate is always CONCLUDED at the end of it.
What happens to Luke or Leia or Han or Lando? well they have a celebration thats for sure but thier ultimate fate is not given.

Aragorn's ultimate fate is given in the movies, too. Does that make him the central protagonist in LOTR? Faramir's ultimate fate is given in the movies and books, as well; does that make him the central protagonist in LOTR?

Besides, Luke's fate is concluded at the end of ROTJ. He hasn't turned to the Dark Side and remained a Jedi Knight. You realize that they show Yoda and Obi-Wan along with Anakin in the end of ROTJ. I don't understand why, of the three, only Anakin is considered to have his fate sealed. Yoda and Obi-Wan are in the exact same boat as Anakin and we know as much what happens to them as to Anakin.

Finally, not all heroes need to have their fate ultimately sealed. Take Harry Potter, for example. What will JK Rowling have to do at the end of the story to seal Harry's ultimate fate? She can't as well write the rest of his life story. All she can do is say how his struggle with Voldemort ended and maybe expound a little more on what might happen in the near future.

And that's exactly how Luke's story ended. He is a Jedi Knight and he is going to rebuild the Jedi Order (the latter is more of a hint than fact).

Depa Billaba

 

Actually, Golum does save the day, even though he does not do it willingly. If not for Golum, the One Ring would have continued to exist, Sauron would not have died, Aragorn and company would have perished, and who knew what else would have happened.

If this "if not for..." argument is your basis for saying that Gollum saved the day, then that same argument can be applied to Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Gandalf, and many other characters who played crucial roles in the saga.

The fact that "he does not do it willingly" undercuts the whole idea that he saved the day. It's like saying that in ROTJ, the Emperor saved the day, because if he hadn't hit Luke with the lightning, Vader wouldn't have turned on him and killed him. Thus: if not for the Emperor, the dark side would not have been vanquished.

That is not how you determine who "saves the day" - it's not about simple chains of causation, it's about who makes the right choice at the critical time, and who (intentionally) accomplishes the feat that brings about victory for the good guys.

You can't have heroism without intent. True, somebody can be thrust by accident into the position which lays the groundwork for them to become a hero (such as Luke and Frodo), but the action which earns them that title has to be intentional.

 

If this "if not for..." argument is your basis for saying that Gollum saved the day, then that same argument can be applied to Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Gandalf, and many other characters who played crucial roles in the saga.

DarthNigel, perhaps you should read my post before posting.

In case you missed it, I was refuting the point made earlier that Anakin was the hero because he saves the day (somebody said that the main protagonist is the one who saves the day, without whom the plot would literally break down).

Depa Billaba

 

the trilogy is about Palpatine.

Luke, Vader, Leia, Yoda. Everybody in the Trilogy are pawns for the Emporer amusement! The Universe is Fine, then palpatinecomes in to the picture and is in complete control of the entire trilogy until the last Ten minutes of ROTJ. The Greatest and most powerful Jedi in the galaxy and they could not stop the rise of one man. ponder on that

 

Palpatine??? The guy is barely in the OT and is mysterious in the PT. Few stories are about the Villan and this one is one of the many thats not. Its Luke or Anakin and in my mind its Anakin' Story

 

It's about Anakin. Anakin. It's quite clear. Who is in all six movies? Anakin. Who is the figure that is most emotionally connected to the audience? Anakin. Who gets the girl? Anakin. (leave Han outta this one!)

See? It's Anakin!

 

This Saga is about the Sith.

The galaxy was peaceful and boring with a bunch of Jedi who sit in a room and ponder all day, not aware of evil brewing right under their noses. You say that this Saga can't be about the villian in one breath then say it is all about Anikan in the next. Duh Anikan is the villian and he is Palpatines Pawn from
Episode II Until Vader tosses the emporer like yesterdays refuge. I mean come on, the sith are in control the entire time. Do you not think that Palpatine did not bring to Luke's attention on Dagobah the fact that his friends were in trouble? Why do you think Vader Knew he was coming? It was all part of Palpatines plan. And in ROTJ, He knew Luke would seek out Vader, but what he didn't count on was free will. Thus, it was his demise, Palpatine could only see things on a grand scale and overlooked the small details. Now if you ask me who the Star character of the films is it is the Rise and fall of Anakin. Too bad Lucas has made Anakin out to be a big pus so far in the new trilogy, because Anakin should be a darker character from the begining. I still stick to the truth that without Palpatines deception to the Galaxy none of this would of happened

 

I dont think that the story is about any one (or two or three) character(s).. it is about struggle and the strive to overcome evil... in the beggining, evil starts to poke its head into an otherwise peaceful galaxy. Through times and struggles you have Hero's that survive (Luke Han, leia, etc.<yoda survives also just dies of old age>) and hero's that bravely fall(Obi-wan, Mace<Maybe>, Qui gon, Padme<Maybe> Gungans<LoL>).. you have hero's that were destined to succumb to evil only to be redeemed and put back what was once right(Anakin, Dooku<Maybe>).You have evil personified in its worst that eventually meet the doom they have made for themselves(Palpatine, Maul,Dooku<maybe>).(these are just the center characters, there are many that contribute to those catagories). and at the end it's about putting back what is good and redemption...It's not about one person or just the jedi, or just the republic/empire..it just has cool things in it like lightsabers and the force, etc... ... A classic unforgettable story..

 

It's about Anakin. Anakin. It's quite clear.

Not really.

Who is in all six movies? Anakin.

So is Obi-Wan.

Who is the figure that is most emotionally connected to the audience? Anakin.

Err. Anakin is most emotionally connected to the audience? Where did you get that from? Maybe that's true for you, but not for me. I have most sympathy and empathy for Obi-Wan.

Who gets the girl? Anakin. (leave Han outta this one!)

See? It's Anakin!

Err. What? Getting the girl will make you a hero? I'm so confused.

Depa Billaba

 

You said it PIEGUY!!!!!
It's about so much more. That was my point. You can view the story from so many different perspectives. If I wanted to spin this to where it was all about Obi-Wan
I could. I love that about the these movies is the fact that people can read into them what they want.
These movies could be all about Yoda's Faliure to protect the order from the future demise and his redemption with his training of Luke and the fall of the Empire. It is so much more and I completly agree with you PIEGUY Don't pin it down to one line of story

 

I posted this in another thread. I read somewhere before the PT was to be released that the entire saga revolves around the droids. Odd as it may be, they play a pivotal role in almost every situation somewhere. It's odd, but watch the first 5 without an objective mind( looking for mistakes, wondering who Syfo-dias is...) and you MIGHT come to the same conclusion as myself and a few others.

 

The original trilogy was always made to focus on Luke, and that's how it remains, regardless of what the prequels show. Only the first half of the series is about Anakin. There are multiple character journeys, but the original trilogy, which is an entire half of the series, was always about Luke, and always will be. The focus of those films is set.

 

It about Palpatine. In my opinion, he'sthe most important character in the saga. Without him, none of these event would have happened.

 

A boy... a girl... and a GALAXY!

 

Star wars is not about a certain character its about the rise and fall of the empire.
The hero,however is definately Luke. He convinced Darth Vader to return to the light side. Vader killed the emporor in the end but so what? he also wiped out all the Jedis not to mention Alderaan. Luke was the good guy all the time. Vader was just a tool used by the emporor till right at the end when he decided to be a good guy, that doesn't make him the focus of the movies. Anakin was not the hero of EPI or EPII obi 1 was the hero.
If I'm allowed to talk about the EU (please don't stone me) then its obvios Luke is the hero because he was the first of the new jedi and he made the new Jedi academy.

 

It's about us.

 

ESB is as much about Vader as it is about Luke, as is ROTJ. ANH is the only OT film were Luke is the main issue. Overall the saga is about Anakin, and it has been ever since Episode 4 got the title A New Hope.

 

Anakin!

 

Definitely about Anakin!

 

Maybe It's about Master/Apprentice Relationships: Dooku/Qui Gon, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan/Anakin/Luke, Yoda/Everyone, Sidious/Maul, Palpy/Vader, ect.
Actually I think It's really about...YODA! IT'S ALL ABOUT YODA. Ya'll know I'm right!