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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Who or what event affected Anakin's turn to the dark side more?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Master Mini 907, Jun 1, 2014.

?

Who effected Anakin's turn to the dark side more?

  1. Padme Amidala (wife)

    55.8%
  2. Shmi Skywalker (mother)

    44.2%
  1. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Neither one. It was his search for power alone that caused his downfall. "The world should be as I want it to be" rather than as it is and will be. That being said, it certainly didn't help that he became a Jedi, which is a pretty high discipline for someone with his emotional dependencies. Qui-Gon recognized that he was the Chosen One, but shouldn't have attempted to get him trained (especially since a true prophecy works itself out). I say after Anakin's own drive for power, it's Qui-Gon's bad judgement.
     
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  2. Darth Vader's Chest Plate

    Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013

    Whilst not doubting her motives in wanting a better life for her son, the fear of the unknown alongside leaving his mother obviously played on his early years in the Jedi's care. All the training he received was built upon an uncertainty and potential fear.
     
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  3. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Again, though, I don't really see how that's an example of Shmi "affecting" Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. Anakin's situation wasn't her fault and she really had no effect on it given that she had no choice in the matter. Yes, the separation from his mother doubtlessly disturbed Anakin deeply, but that's not a result of Shmi's choices is all I'm saying. I just think the poll is phrased in a rather misleading way that doesn't reflect the truth of the situation.
     
  4. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Palpatine was already close to Anakin before Shmi's death. A scene in AOTC made that clear.
     
  5. Jesse Booth

    Jesse Booth Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2014

    Hmmm. Tough question to answer. Let's see...

    He knew both of them as a young child... 0-0

    He watched his mother die... 0-1

    He spent his teen years with Padme... 1-1

    His mother told him to go with the Jedi... 1-2

    Padme seduced him... 2-2

    He's been inside of both of them... 2-2

    I give up! I just can't figure this one out!
     
  6. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    How about summing many of these reasons up as "Human Nature"? Other events, like his mothers death can be seen as triggering points, but not necessarily causual.
     
  7. Masterjedi688

    Masterjedi688 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2014
    I blame 3 characters, Shmi, Palpatine and Obi wan. Mom for dying, Palpatine for brainwashing him and Obi wan who didn't really teach him well and for not listening to Yoda when he said he sensed great danger in the boy's training in TPM.
     
  8. Mata2010

    Mata2010 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2013
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. OBI WAN37

    OBI WAN37 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 12, 2014
    It's been claimed that Anakin is insane because he slaughtered children and such, and that his turn to the Dark Side was too fast, but isn't it pretty clear in the movies that his emotions were largely influenced by the force? Consider these points:

    -Anakin has the highest midi-chlorian count of any Jedi ever and was concieved by midi-chlorians.
    -These midi-chlorians influence Jedi, and possibly people, in powerful ways.

    QUI-GON: Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the
    Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.
    ANAKIN : They do??
    QUI-GON : When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to
    you.
    ANAKIN : I don't understand.
    QUI-GON : With time and training, Annie...you will.

    -In Rots, Anakin says to Padme that he's "not the Jedi (he) should be", and feels "lost". Sinister music accompanies this scene. This could signify the effects of the force.

    Anakin Skywalker: I feel lost.
    Padmé: Lost?
    Anakin Skywalker: Obi-Wan and the Council don't trust me.
    Padmé: They trust you with their lives.
    Anakin Skywalker: Something's happening. I'm not the Jedi I should be. I want more. And I know I shouldn't.

    -Anakin began to miss his mother as soon as he was taken away from her at a very young age.
    -He murdered the tusken raiders directly after experiencing extreme trauma, which was finding his mother tortured and weak and then having her die in his arms, after being taken away from her as a child and later having visions of her "suffering".
    -This was the first step in him turning to the dark side, and led to him not wanting to lose another loved one, in this case Padme.
    -The next step in his turn to the Dark Side was killing Dooku. This was because of a multitude of reasons (revenge, as a measure of security, midi-chlorians influencing him to turn to the dark side, and also his difficulty to do the right thing after murdering those tusken raiders).
    -The third step in his turn to the dark side was indirectly killing Mace Windu, which he did to save Padme.
    -Possibly the last step in his turn to the dark side was slaughtering the jedi, including the children, which he did because of two reasons:
    1. He wanted to save Padme.
    2. He was so far in in his turn to the dark side, and the midi-chlorians were probably influencing him in some way.
    -Most of the previous points could also be explained partially by the fact that Anakin was "far too old" to be trained in TPM. You could take away from this that the force magnifies people emotions, whether negative or not.

    MACE WINDU: He is too old. There is already too much anger in him.

    YODA: ....grave danger I fear in his training

    -It is also very possible to conclude from this information that "the will of the force" was to eliminate the somewhat militarized Jedi who far outnumbered the Sith (they were leaning towards militarization in Aotc when they agreed to use the clone army). It is possible that the force can see very vividly into the future, as Yoda has indicated that he at least can somewhat, and this was part of its grand plan.

    In short:

    -The force manipulates people (the will of the force). Anakin was very susceptable to such manipulation because he was concieved by midi-chlorians.
    -Anakin killed the tusken raiders because
    1. He was being manipulated by the force.
    2. He had not been taught to discipline his emotions at a young age like he should have. That condition in any Jedi could very well lead to having the force possibly magnify their emotions, whether negative ones or not.
    3.He was taken away from his mother as a child, had visions of her suffering and he then found her tortured and had her die in his arms.
    -Anakin took several steps, as opposed to a massive leap, in his turn to the dark side (killing tusken raiders after massive trauma, killing Dooku, indirectly killing Mace Windu, then killing Jedi and Jedi children.
    -These decisions were as I have said influenced by a combination of his very unfortunate circumstances, the force and his unique connection to it, and that latter aspect combined with his lack of emotional discipline which the Jedi failed to give him as a child.
    -The Jedi were becoming militarized and possibly therefore "unpeaceful". This could have made the "will of the force" to be to eliminate the Jedi, and then later the Sith in ROTJ until only one, non-militarized Jedi remained.
    -Anakin was not insane. He was a victim of unfortunate circumstances as well as subject to the powerful influence of the force.
    -Anakin's fall to the dark side was not too fast. He took gradual steps and he was also subject to the (like I said) powerful influence of the force.
     
  10. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Merged Threads
     
  11. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    the title of this thread make my brain hurt.
     
  12. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 21, 2011
    Shmi. Had she not died, Anakin would not have taken his visions of Padme as seriously. He may have tried to do some things to prevent it, but he would not have become a Sith to save her.
     
  13. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Thread title would be better titled "what event affected..." rather than "who." "Who" makes it sound as if the OP is searching for which person to turn the blame on for Anakin's fall.
     
  14. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Mod Note: Title altered to clarify.
     
  15. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Many contributed, but the ultimate responsibility was Anakin's. He didn't intend for things to get so out of hand, though.
    Much blame can be put on Palpatine, but from his point of view, he wasn't actually evil; just misunderstood.

    The thing that ultimately did Anakin in was fear. If he hadn't been so afraid of change, of losing his loved ones, he wouldn't have gone as far as killing younglings in cold blood. That act wasn't really in him, it was completely out of character for him, but his fear drove him there. It overshadowed everything else by then.

    So why was he so afraid? It's hard to say, but my guess is that he grew up fearing to lose his mother, since she was his whole family. Without her, he would've been alone, with only his slave owner, fellow slaves and machines for company. He would've grown up a lone slave, having to look after himself, with noone to truly love and care for him.
    Shmi was his anchor. He depended on her.

    I think that's how it all began and that's why the real culprit is slavery.
     
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  16. Darth Cyn

    Darth Cyn Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 8, 2014
    Well, his being a sith caused Padme's death, and he was only paranoid enough to turn to the dark side over Shmi's death, so, I'd say his mother's death had the most effect in his decision.
     
  17. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Palpatine, Obi Wan, Mace Windu n Yoda in that order.
     
  18. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

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    May 12, 2013
    The answer is PT Anakin is an idiot.
     
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  19. Master Mini 907

    Master Mini 907 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 3, 2013
    Not necessarily.
     
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  20. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Interesting thing I noticed re: the Jedi - in the JCC threads on US Society and Black Men and on the Your Woman is in Another Castle: the prevailing viewpoint is:

    1. The victim is NEVER at fault
    2. To even mention that the victim may have (inadvertently) "contributed" to whatever actions happened, is to accuse them of being at fault, rather than the person doing the wrong

    Yet when it comes to the Jedi these rules are thrown out - they "contributed to their fall" and sometimes "brought this upon themselves" and therefore a bit/some/most of the blame for their downfall falls upon them.

    Why this disparity?
     
  21. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    Anakin repeatedly displays poor decision making skills and immaturity throughout the PT. He may be a powerful Jedi in combat, but I wouldn't trust his judgement regarding anything important. He's the Jameis Winston of the Jedi Order. Super talented in his element, but otherwise completely lacking in common sense thinking.
     
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  22. Master Mini 907

    Master Mini 907 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 3, 2013
    That still doesn't make it entirely his fault.
     
  23. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

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    May 12, 2013
    Oh, no. I wouldn't blame Hitler for his atrocities, either. Someone probably called him a bad name back in grade school and that relieves him of responsbility for the Holocaust.
     
  24. AkshayTheJedi

    AkshayTheJedi Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2013
    His journey to the dark side started with Shmi and got enhanced due to his vision of Padme's death. But it was was also his thirst for power as the Jedi council didn't grant him the rank of master and of course he truly believed that the Jedi wanted to overthrow the republic.


    Sent from The Millennium Falcon
     
  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Good question. I don't get the disparity either.