Who Should Have Trained Anakin?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DarthDiabolous, Dec 13, 2008.

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  1. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I suppose, but I'm not sure why it's enough for Lucas to think they were "corrupted" in the Prequels but not in the OT.
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I think the main point for that is how they were blatantly tied to the Republic, which itself was failed and corrupted. Yeah, Luke hangs out with the Rebels-but he always does his own thing and the Rebs don't seem to object; that wasn't the case with Palpatine and the OJO, obviously.

    It's not so much that the Jedi themselves were corrupted as they were wed to a corrupted system and increasingly willing to go to any length to preserve it, which I think the EU has done a pretty good job of showing.
  3. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I suppose the greater autonomy could be enough.
  4. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    To contrast:
    By the end of the prequels, the Jedi are so politically hamstrung that they can't do hardly anything without consulting the Chancellor, which is obviously a bad idea. He even has an effective vote on the Council.

    By the end of the OT, Luke shows up, says he's going to Endor, and everyone's like "well, ok then." Not even Mon Mothma or Admiral Ackbar attempt to say otherwise.
  5. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    It's worth pointing out that in RotS the Jedi unilaterally decide to remove the Chancellor from office and largely ignore Anakin's input as the Chancellor's representative. They're hamstrung during the war, but they're starting to take steps to correct that prior to the Order's destruction.
  6. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I think the point is that the Jedi shouldn't have been answering to politicians to begin with.
  7. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I'm just not positive that they ever truly did. They worked with them when their objectives aligned, but the Jedi hid information from the Senate as far back as AotC and worked without the approval of the Senate in TPM, AotC, and RotS.
  8. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, at the pleasure of the Chancellor.

    Also: "Anakin, our allegiance is to the Senate, not to it's leader.."

    They answered to the Senate. Or, well, perhaps not so much answered as supported far too much.
  9. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    They were certainly aligned with the Senate(and I suppose Lucas wants to communicate that this was a bad thing) but, they seem to have autonomy.
  10. DarthProf Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2008
    I agree. If anyone had a chance of successfully training Anakin and preventing his fall to the dark side, it was Qui-Gon.

    Though Palps is obviously an evil, manipulative old bastard, he is right about one thing - the PT Jedi ARE narrow and dogmatic. Qui-Gon was much less orthodox than the other Jedi we see in the PT and thus I think he would have been much better at dealing with the unique challenges presented by training Anakin. Not that Obi-Wan didn't do his best, it's just that Obi-Wan was more conservative and much less experienced.

    The biggest reason, though, as drg4 alluded to, is because had Qui-Gon lived to train Anakin, it is unlikely that Ani would have grown so close to Palps in the first place. Others on these forums have also suggested that Palps filled a father role for Anakin, one that was vacated abruptly with Qui-Gon's demise, and I tend to agree with that assessment. I'm also fairly confident that Qui-Gon would have been onto Palps long before Yoda, Mace, et. al figured it out.

    I think Qui-Gon's emphasis on the Living Force would have helped Anakin a great deal as well. Had Anakin been more like Qui-Gon, he would have been much less obsessed with his visions about Padme and changing the course of the future, which is ultimately what got him into trouble.

    A final reason that would make Qui-Gon by far the best suited to train Anakin comes from the EU, where Qui-Gon had his own forbidden attachment that nearly drove him to the dark side. Having had that experience, Qui-Gon would have been able to help Anakin with his "Padme dilemma" and with his mother's death in a way other Jedi would and could not. Instead of ignoring his visions about Shmi or turning a blind eye about Padme, I suspect that Qui-Gon would have discussed it openly with Anakin, talking about his own experience, and would have offered some genuine, personal advice instead of pithy Jedi-isms ("dreams pass in time," "you must train yourself to let go of all you fear to lose").
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Except you really do have to train yourself to let go. It's not bad advice, just not what Anakin wanted to hear.
  12. goraq Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nico_Diath
    This guy or Jolee Bindo would be ideal for him

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jolee_Bindo
  13. DarthProf Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Sure...I was going to say in my post that ultimately Qui-Gon would have told Anakin essentially the same thing Yoda did, but I think he would have presented it in a more effective way. Also, the type of Master-Apprentice relationship they would have developed would have been a lot more open, especially because Qui-Gon was so unorthodox, so Anakin would probably be more receptive than he was to the exact same advice coming from Yoda. I certainly would rather talk to Qui-Gon about "taboo" topics like love, anger, and fear than to any of the other PT Jedi!
  14. reneelee2 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2008
    i beleive qui gons fall was the fatal trigger that sent anakin destined for the dark side.
    poeple argue that obiwan was the greater jedi to qui gon, but i beleive qui gon taught obi wan everything he knew.. also obiwan was not the easiest padawan to train(read the jedi apprentice books (judewatson) you will know)
    qui gon had great advice for a young confused obi wan, to cope with fear, anger etc that anakin would of benefited from greatly and would of saved him from palptines evil path.
    anakin thought of qui gon as his saviour ( he saved him from the life of slavery)
    his death greatly affected him.
    perhaps they should of included
    more of qui gons influence to anakin via force ghost and this could of saved him also.
    hence to stay qui gon is my fav jedi.
    galen (starkiller darth vadars apprentice) is also fantastic.
    i also like darth vadar/anakin.
  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    >>>also obiwan was not the easiest padawan to train(read the jedi apprentice books (judewatson) you will know)

    This is also hinted at by TESB.:)
  16. JPorkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2005
    star 1
    Only Aayla Secura had to power to train Anakin ;)
  17. Darth_Laudrup Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2004
    star 4
    Qui-Gon Jinn or Yoda get my vote. But if we go for Yoda then it would have to be OT Yoda.
  18. BarkingFrog Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2009
    star 2
    Why would it have to be OT Yoda? We don't see him training anyone in the Prequel trilogy, apart from the younglings. Surely his style would be different when training a group of 5 year olds, from training a single padawan. So I would assume OT Yoda would teach the same as he would have 30 years before.
  19. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    ..Beyond that PT Yoda believes in 'minding the future' (Obi-Wan Kenobi) and that OT Yoda speaks of looking to the future with utter scorn.

    "Never his mind on where he was, what he was doing!"

    -Yoda, TESB

  20. Darth_Laudrup Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2004
    star 4
    I just feel that the OT Yoda is much more experienced, serious and strict.
  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Well, of course he is. He just lost the Galactic World Cup to a Sith Lord and had to sit around in a swamp for a couple of decades, in addition to seeing thousands of his students killed in a proxy war that served nothing but the Sith's own goals.

    Yoda got blindsided, and the much wiser OT Yoda is the result: The guy who sets up the perfect trap for the Sith.
  22. ObiWanJedi93 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 2008
    star 4
    I think Yoda is much more serious in the PT. In TESB, he is older, which makes him wiser, but I thought he gave excellent advice and such in the PT.
  23. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    He did...sort of. His advice was sound to an extent; for example, you shouldn't still be wallowing in grief for someone who died thirty years ago. But telling a husband he shouldn't mourn at all when his wife dies is pretty ridiculous in general, not to mention emotionally unhealthy. Mourning allows us to let go over time; it's a natural part of being human, and, arguably, certain animal species.
  24. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    The dogmatic confines of the Jedi Order were inevitably going to clash with the independent fervor of Anakin. It wasn't a conflict that could be eased by different personalities. It was the assumption that such a boy could be integrated into the order...the original concerns voiced by Yoda in "Menace."

    -Seldon
  25. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    Of course, due to Anakin's evasive phrasing Yoda didn't know he was talking to a husband who feared for the death of his wife. He thought he was simply talking to a Jedi Knight who had seen his master's death in the Force.
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