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Who was the most force wielder?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by The_Bubonic_Force, May 5, 2009.

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  1. The_Bubonic_Force

    The_Bubonic_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 13, 2008
    All canon continuity can be used, including the EU, if canon. The following are different types of measurements of 'power';

    LIGHTSABER SKILL:

    Who was the greatest Lightsaber duelist?

    ACCESS TO THE FORCE:

    Who was strongest in the force (Force potential cannot be used)?

    FORCE SENSITIVITY:

    Who could have potentially been the most powerful force wielder?

    KNOWLEDGE:

    Who knew the most about the Force?

    POTENCY AGAINST NON-FORCE USERS:

    Who was most effective at killing non-force users, like bounty hunters, assassins, mercenaries, thugs, warriors and trained soldiers?

    MY LIST;

    Lightsaber skill: Yoda

    Access to the force: Luke Skywalker (Jedi Master)

    Force sensitivity: Anakin Skywalker (Pre-Cyborg)

    Knowledge: Qui-Gon Jinn

    Potency against non-force users: Darth Vader


     
  2. BarkingFrog

    BarkingFrog Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Going mainly by the movies...

    Lightsaber skill: Yoda, or maybe Darth Tyranus

    Access to the force: Luke Skywalker/Darth Sidious

    Force sensitivity: Anakin Skywalker

    Knowledge: Darth Sidious

    Potency against non-force users: Darth Vader
     
  3. Gary_Buchenara

    Gary_Buchenara Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 29, 2009
    Sabre: Windu
    Access: Qui Gon
    Sensitivity: Anakin
    Knowledge: Qui Gon
    Against non-Force: Vader
     
  4. Rev

    Rev Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Lightsaber skill: Tulak Hord
    "If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters."
    -Kreia to the Exile, referring to Hord's prowess in lightsaber combat


    Access to the Force: Anakin Skywalker
    "It is possible he was conceived by the Midi-chlorians."
    "You refer to the prophesy of the one who will bring balance to the Force?"
    -Qui-Gon and Mace Windu, referring to Anakin as the Chosen One


    Force-sensitivity: Cade Skywalker
    "Healing me like you did was not something you were taught?you did that by instinct alone!"
    -Wolf Sazen to Cade Skywalker


    Knowledge: Darth Plagueis
    "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying."
    -Palpatine to Anakin Skywalker


    Potency against non-Force users: Starkiller (Galen Marek)
    ?Where a normal Jedi might use the Force to trick his way past a few stormtroopers, the apprentice might use the Force to bring down an adjacent building on top of those stormtroopers. He's extremely confident in everything he does. He's been trained by Vader to be an assassin, an unstoppable force.?
    -Haden Blackman
     
  5. The_Bubonic_Force

    The_Bubonic_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 13, 2008
    You have a few characters that I should have put, but your list has some flaws, Anakin Skywalker never reached his stronger than Yoda potential, Luke Skywalker did reach that same potential.

    Also, both Qui-Gonn Jinn and Darth Plagueis knew just as much about the force, they both could become immortal, except they discovered the ability to cheat death in the opposite sides of the force.

    KoToR was not apart of the Canon EU, and Tulak Hord was never shown, therefore Yoda remains the most skilled lightsaber duelist.
     
  6. The_Bubonic_Force

    The_Bubonic_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 13, 2008
    I think that as far as films are concerned, the official list should be;

    Lightsaber Skill: Mace Windu=/=Count Dooku

    Access to The Force: Yoda=/=Palpatine

    Force Sensitivity: Luke Skywalker=/=Anakin Skywalker

    Knowledge: Gui-Gonn Jinn=/=Darth Plageuis

    Most Well Rounded: Obi-Wan Kenobi=/=Darth Vader


    Each Jedi has a Sith counterpart of equal knowledge in the opposing aspect of the force.


     
  7. Rev

    Rev Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2005
    I took access to the Force to mean having the greatest potential, which is why I supported my statement with the quote regarding Anakin having been conceived by the Force.

    More curious though is your claim that the Knights of the Old Republic series is not Expanded Universe canon. What evidence do you have to support this? If you're simply trying to say that the Expanded Universe is not canon, Galen Marek should be excluded from the discussion as well. And while I realize that this is the Saga forum, you specifically said that Expanded Universe characters are open for submission.

    Please clarify.
     
  8. Gary_Buchenara

    Gary_Buchenara Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 29, 2009

    Yes, I must admit to doing these off the top of my head rather than after careful consideration of the films. Also, one or two of the films I haven't watched that often. I think I chose Windu for sabre on account of him overpowering Sidious and Sidious more than matching Yoda, who more or less stalemated Dooku. By no means a definitive claim!

     
  9. BarkingFrog

    BarkingFrog Jedi Master star 2

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    Jan 4, 2009
    If you remember, Mace didn't beat Palpatine because of his lightsaber. He kicked him in the face.

    Judging lightsaber skill is tricky.
     
  10. Gary_Buchenara

    Gary_Buchenara Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 29, 2009
    Yeah, it is tricky. So many apparently contradictory results. I will say that for Mace to be able to kick someone as powerful as Sidious in the face, he must have been doing something right in the duel in order to make him that vulnerable. Lucas says Mace overpowered Sidious, so I'll take that at face value.
     
  11. The_Bubonic_Force

    The_Bubonic_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 13, 2008
    As far as the EU goes;

    Lightsaber Skill: Tulak Hord.

    Access to the Force: As far as sheer power in the force, the title of the most powerful force wielder in the entire EU was either Luke Skywalker or Nomi Sunrider. And that's a tough choice, but I'd say it was Luke Skywalker.

    Force Sensitivity: Luke Skywalker=/=Anakin Skywalker.

    Knowledge: Qui-Gon Jinn=/=Darth Plagueis.

    Potency Against Non-Force Users: Starkiller/Galen Marek
     
  12. The_Bubonic_Force

    The_Bubonic_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 13, 2008
    Actually I think I was wrong, the only reason Mace Windu managed to beat Darth Sidious was due to him using the room to his advantage.

    Both Yoda and Palpatine were superior to Mace Windu in lightsaber combat with their force augmented acrobatic lightsaber skills.

    So naturally the first thing Mace Windu did when fighting Palpatine was to enter a narrow hallway where he could not be out maneuvered in lightsaber combat. And then when they left the hallway Palpatine sure enough started out maneuvering Mace Windu by going air-born with acrobatic flips, so Mace forced him to the window, where he could not flip without falling out, and that's how he beat Palpatine.

    So the greatest lightsaber in the films was actually Yoda, partially because of his force augmented acrobatic flips during lightsaber combat, and because of his size.

    But I believe that the greatest lightsaber duelist in the EU wasn't Tulak Hord, but Darth Bane's Sith Master, [link=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kas%27im]Kas'im[/link]. Kas'im's skill was unrivaled, he easily beat his master, and Darth Bane in lightsaber combat. He mastered every single form of lightsaber combat to a more extensive degree than even Cin Drallig and Yoda did. He never lost a single lightsaber duel, until Darth Bane killed him with a devastating Force Wave.

     
  13. Dark--Helmet

    Dark--Helmet Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Just the movie's as I'm not a wizz with EU knowledge.

    Sabre:Windu-beat Palp,who tied Yoda

    Access:Yoda-everything he could do at his old age and small size,matched palp blow for blow.

    Sensitivity:Anakin,the film makes this pretty clear

    Knowledge:At the end of the series Yoda knows more then Qui,I'm not sure if Darth Plagueis was even real.

    Against non -Force:eek:bi easy




    It's funny,everthing you mentioned is precisely why Mace is the superior lightsabre fighter.Using your surrondings,mental state,out manuvering people,foot work etc etc.Mace is never out maneuvered,he simply blocks Palps flips and countinues.

    Theres no such thing as"the only reason he beat so and so was because of this".It's a fight nothing can be separated,the better fighter is the guy who wins.
     
  14. The_Bubonic_Force

    The_Bubonic_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 13, 2008
    It's not that simple, Mace Windu would not have been able to just effortlessly avert Palpatine's attacks without cornering him near the window where Palpatine couldn't out maneuver him with acrobatic flips. Mace Windu wasn't strong enough in the force to successfully achieve these flips in a duel.

    That's completely false. Anakin was Anakin was superior to Obi-Wan in lightsaber combat when they fought on Mustafar, Count Dooku was superior to Anakin in lightsaber combat when they fought on The Invisible Hand and Palpatine was superior to Mace Windu, yet all 3 of the inferior Jedi/Sith lost, and why, "because of so-and-so".
     
  15. Dark--Helmet

    Dark--Helmet Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Apr 22, 2003
    It is that simple,mace stops Palps flipy style twice during the fight,Dooku held of Yoda,and Mace is stronger then Dooku,it's been done before.Again what your saying Mace did is the reason he's the better Lightsabre wielder.

    Obi is clearly the superior one on Mustafar,he defeats Anakin completely,Mace pushed Palp around in Lightsabre combat so bad Palp was forced to go to his lighting.Dooku and Anakin's a little different,as I got the impression Dooku was holding back.


     
  16. Gary_Buchenara

    Gary_Buchenara Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 29, 2009
    Like in any contest, sheer skill is only part of the equation. Mental focus, strength and composure and adaptability to the conditions of the contest on the day are all part of it and they're all factors in determining the better combatant. That's why Mace overpowered Sidious and it's why Obiwan sliced and diced Anakin.
     
  17. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    In LOE, Sidious instructs Dooku to kill Kenobi but not Anakin.
     
  18. EmeraldBlade

    EmeraldBlade Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2008

    Lightsaber skill: Sidious

    Access to the force: Luke or Sidious.

    Force sensitivity: Anakin

    Knowledge: Sidious

    Potency against non-force users: One of the Jedi perhaps. Anakin or Obi-wan? Difficult one.


     
  19. Moisdne

    Moisdne Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    May 16, 2009
    Darth Vader because he used it almost constantly to sustain life. (walking,breathing,moveing exc.)

    [face_chicken]
     
  20. ILuvJarJar

    ILuvJarJar Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2008
    LIGHTSABER SKILL:

    Anikan

    ACCESS TO THE FORCE:

    Yoda

    FORCE SENSITIVITY:

    Sidious

    KNOWLEDGE:

    Yoda

    POTENCY AGAINST NON-FORCE USERS:

    Mace Windu
     
  21. MasterMonkey13

    MasterMonkey13 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2008
    LIGHTSABER SKILL:

    Mace Windu

    ACCESS TO THE FORCE:

    Darth Sidious / Yoda

    FORCE SENSITIVITY:

    Anakin

    KNOWLEDGE:

    Qui-Gon / Yoda

    POTENCY AGAINST NON-FORCE USERS:

    Obi-Wan

     
  22. The_Bubonic_Force

    The_Bubonic_Force Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 13, 2008
    Agreed, except for Obi-Wan, Darth Vader had cybernetic parts that made him practically indestructible to anyone who doesn't have a lightsaber and the knowledge to use it. No other Jedi/Sith has the cyborg advantage plus access to the force, so my revised list is;

    LIGHTSABER SKILL:

    Mace Windu/Count Dooku

    ACCESS TO THE FORCE:

    Darth Sidious / Yoda

    FORCE SENSITIVITY:

    Anakin/Luke

    KNOWLEDGE:

    Qui-Gon/Darth Plageuis

    POTENCY AGAINST NON-FORCE USERS:

    Darth Vader

    And as for the EU, my sig explains how no one was as devastating in combat as Galen Marek.
     
  23. StarWarrior77

    StarWarrior77 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2008




    Lightsaber skill: Darth Sidious

    Access to the force: Obi-Wan Kenobi

    Force sensitivity: Qui-Gon Jinn

    Knowledge: Yoda

    Potency against non-force users: Darth Maul


     
  24. KratosSky

    KratosSky Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Lightsaber skill: Luke Skywalker

    Access to the force: Luke Skywalker, Galen Marek.

    Force sensitivity: Anakin and Luke Skywalker

    Knowledge: Jinn,Yoda,Luke

    Potency against non-force users: Too many force-users.
     
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