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Discussions Who was the worst Sith Lord conceived in the EU?

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Graves101, Aug 10, 2013.

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  1. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 6, 2013
    Jacen Solo. Aside from it being a bad idea to begin with, it was poorly done.
     
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  2. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    Jacen didn't fall. "Jacen" did.
     
  3. The Kulvax Sisters

    The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master star 2

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    Jan 10, 2013
    Lord Vitiate and Lord Scourge, they are literally just rip-offs of Nihilus & Sion and Palpatine & Vader, hell I disliked the entire Revan novel and how badly they trivialised if not outright retconned parts of KotOR 2, you know only one of the most interesting elements of the EU ever written, but I digress.

    Darth Revan and later Mr. Bat-**** Genocide has to get special mention, when 'he' was mysterious and unknown and only known as a man behind a mask, more like a legend than a real person, he/she was awesome, the 'canon' Revan is one of the worst mary sues I've ever seen, I mean did Drew seriously have to make him the catalyst of the Rule of Two? *facepalm*
     
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  4. zark

    zark Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 23, 2009
    I'd just like to say that at the time of Karpyshyn writing the Darth Bane novels (particularly the first) he had not (as far as I know) written Revan as a character before, so I don't see it as a pet character he's referencing out of a need to make his work meaningful. Additionally, I think the rule of two had to have an origin of some kind or with some person, and he chose to utilize a name and face that many people already looked at as an awesome sith, as opposed to writing another vaguely interesting but ultimately useless ancient sith lord. And while Revan is without a doubt a immense Mary Sue, most protagonists of action video games are.
    My facts/timeline of when things were written may be incorrect, and I may be misinformed, but on that aspect at least, I don't mind it. ("it" meaning the origin of the rule of two) (I'm one of the few seemingly who really enjoyed the Darth Bane trilogy)
     
  5. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    Exactly how I feel. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Rule of Two to be inspired by Bane's experience as a miner and/or his experience with his father?

    One thing I hate is how Sith Lords have become so generic.
     
  6. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    zarkinfrood, Karpyshryn was apparently the Senior Writer for KotOR, so yes he is indeed referencing a pet character.
     
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  7. The Kulvax Sisters

    The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master star 2

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    Jan 10, 2013
    Karpyshyn wrote Knights of the Old Republic (the first one) and created the Revan character, so he is Drew's pet character, because Drew made him in the first place and that completely asinine part about Revan being able to use both sides of the Force simultaneously, that was almost difficult to read, does Drew not understand how paradoxical that statement is or something?

    Also I did enjoy the Darth Bane trilogy, but there is quite an obvious difference in quality between PoD & the first half of RoT and the second half of RoT & DoE, that difference being Drew used previous sources on bane to writer the former and wrote the latter parts himself, so he gets a lot more credit than he deserves for that series.

    I think Karpyshyn rushed the Revan novel so quickly and there was so much potential for that book, to see what happened after KotOR 2 to both the characters of 1 & 2, to see the Order rebuild, etc.... but it was so so rushed, all the companions were basically thrown out of the window and forgotten about by Chapter 3, etc..... i could go on and on, i just think that book is one of the biggest wastes of potential in the EU.
     
  8. zark

    zark Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 23, 2009
    Ah, you're correct. I just checked the dates. Thanks zeta.

    Yeah, just got that first part pointed out by zeta, thanks I was in fact misinformed on that point. I will point out that the using both sides of the force simultaneously was not without precedent. Kyle Katarn was a known proponent for using both. So while it being inherently paradoxical *may* be true, (I'm not gonna put my foot down on that one) the concept of using both is actually not Karpyshyn's fault. (technically)
     
  9. General Valerian

    General Valerian Jedi Knight star 4

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    Mar 6, 2013


    I think did a terrible job with the Revan novel mainly because he didn't even play KotoR II and doesn't appear to remotely care about its continuity. He made Meetra look like a total wuss in the novel, whereas in KotOR II she was a badass who killed three Sith Lords and solo'd an entire Sith Academy which was in a planet with a dark side Nexus so powerful it's not even funny.

    Also, his writing wasn't so good, either. But I agree, the novel itself had so much potential.
     
  10. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    The Je'daii used both sides for 10,000 years.
     
  11. The Kulvax Sisters

    The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master star 2

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    Jan 10, 2013
    Actually Kyle just kept switching between the two, he wavered, Karpyshyn claimed that Revan could very literally use both sides of the Force simultaneously, now achieving oneness with the Force like Jacen Solo, fine I could be on-board with that, but no Drew had to contradict G-canon, which has stated quite a few times that it's impossible to use both, you either use the Light Side or the Dark Side, not both or neither.

    The same goes for the Je'daii, which more than anything else is exemplified by the Great Schisms, clearly there were two factions who went to the polar opposites of Ashla and Bogan and they eventually became the Jedi and the Sith.

    My point being any Force User has the potential to use one, then the other, but Drew pretty specifically states both sides of the Force came rushing into him like twin rivers and spent the entire novel claiming that Revan knew better than everyone ever about how to use the Force.
     
  12. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    10,000 years of history beg to differ.
     
  13. The Kulvax Sisters

    The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master star 2

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    Jan 10, 2013
    Care to point me to specifically where it states any of those Jedi used both at the same time? I have read all the pre-Jedi Order books including Dawn of the Jedi and the majority used Ashla, they just didn't view them as separate, don't equate point of view with actual use, Qui-Gon Jinn was a 'grey jedi' a non-orthodox Jedi, but he still used the Light Side of the Force.
     
  14. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    You're right that they don't channel both at the same second.
     
  15. Odolwa

    Odolwa Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 12, 2013
    How about jerec from DF2, Though i wouldn't call him a "Sith lord".
     
  16. AplagueOnTheWise

    AplagueOnTheWise Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 27, 2013
    Every force user post ROTJ
     
  17. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 28, 2009
    Vitiate/The [wannabe] Sith Emperor.

    Easily and unquestionably the worst of the EU's major villains. Offensively derivative and unoriginal.
     
  18. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but I have no problem with Caedus/Jacen or with the Sith Emperor Vitiate. I'd have to say the worst Sith conceived, in my opinion, were the clones of Sidious/Palpatine in Dark Empire. Tionne Solusar and Lumiya did not consider these clones as Sidious himself. Lumiya had developed disdain for Sidious, and she said the clones shouldn't be counted as Sith. They did not work and sacrifice to become Sith. Rather, they merely inherited the personality, goals, and power of Sidious. I myself have problems with the whole Dark Empire storyline. While it can be enjoyable to read, I have a lot of problems with Luke turning to the dark side, even temporarily, and Sidious using all these clone bodies. In fact, his personality in that story is closer to Lord Voldemort as someone once said. That works for Voldemort in Harry Potter, but with Sidious it doesn't.
     
  19. Meyerm

    Meyerm Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Aug 17, 2014
    Dang, a lot of hate for lord Vitiate. Anyways,

    Darth Thanaton or Darth Malak. Thanaton is a hypocritical washup that arrogantly tries to rid the galaxy of those he considers to be mockeries of sith and sith tradition, only to turn around when he fails his own qualifications for what's a good sith, giving lordship to incompetent apprentices as bribery and running to the dark council when he failed in a traditional duel to the death.

    Malak I think was just poorly conceived as a villain. He doesn't really have any clear goals. I mean, he's powerful and intimidating, but his aims and ambitions don't seem to go much further than "Arrrgh, I'm gonna destroy everything because I'm evil!"
     
  20. DurararaFTW

    DurararaFTW Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2014
    If Vergere's a Sith then she was pretty bad at it.
     
  21. Beezlebub

    Beezlebub Jedi Youngling

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    Jan 12, 2015
  22. CrazyOldHermit

    CrazyOldHermit Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Darth Scabrous
     
  23. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    I had once thought Vitiate. I am a great fan of the ancient Sith, but TOR trampled all over the concept of the True Sith, and created a very unoriginal amalgamation of Darth Nihilus and Palpatine in the Sith Emperor. If he'd so much as worn robes befitting an ancient Sith, my opinion of him would be that much improved. That said, being a fan of the ancient Sith, he is something of their poster boy right now, and at least TOR is delving into the arcane in their depiction of him - essence transfer, his rituals, his revival on Yavin, etc.

    That leaves me to say Darth Krayt, who developed a 'Sith Order-lite' full of skimpily dressed Darth Maul clones who had some of the worst Darth names IMO (Krayt not excluded), who had no coherent Sith philosophy, and who just struck me as far too... weak... far too ready to die of a simple infestation at a moment's notice... far too... lame. And yet he accomplished what Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun, Revan, Bane or Vitiate never could, and successfully took over the galaxy, putting him up there with Palpatine? Bah.

    Tionne was as wrong about the clones merely being clones as she was about Sith holocrons being purely technological artifacts; it was an attempt at a soft retcon that has been repeatedly overruled. Palpatine's spirit was inhabiting the clone bodies, so it was much him as we see in the movies.

    And while I agree his personality isn't handled well, one notes this is more the case in Dark Empire II and Empire's End. Personally, I'd have been happy if they'd ended things with Dark Empire, in which Sidious is depicted fairly faithfully to ROTJ, I think.
     
  24. PapiNacho

    PapiNacho Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 14, 2015
    To say Vitiate is the worst Sith conceived is to say Palpatine is the worst Sith conceived so I disagree with that notion. I think Darth Bandon (or whatever Malak's lackey Sith apprentice is called) is easily the lamest Sith Lord to bear the title Darth.
     
  25. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Totally rip-off of Palpatine has to count for something though.
     
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