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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?

Discussion in 'Archive: Revenge of the Sith' started by r8hitman, Feb 20, 2005.

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  1. DarthDubya05

    DarthDubya05 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Dec 1, 2005
    we should be cheering for R2. his plan to take over the galaxy is all going according to plan..
     
  2. AaronKenobi

    AaronKenobi Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Sep 29, 2004
    Too me it is a tie between Obiwan and Luke. Han is the secondary hero of OT but because he is not in any of the prequels(thank god, han as a kid would have been worse then little boba). These three characters are the only ones who consistently do the right thing even if it is a great personal cost to themselves. Owen and Beru can also be seen a real life unsung heroic characters as well even though they are not in the films that much.

    Obiwan is a broken man by the end of ROTS. He has seen his best friend, in his own words his Brother, the man who was the closest thing to a son he would ever have slaughter the rest of of his family( the Jedi). But event then he doesn't hate Anakin he takes it upon himself to protect Anakins son. after 20 years of protecting the son of the man who destroyed his way of life, he lets himself by killed so that the boy could survive and defeat the sith. If Obiwan hadn't sacrificed himself then Luke would never have had the chance to redeem Anakin. The only reason Obiwan wasn't able to redeemm Anakin wasn't through lack of trying but because although he raised Anakin he didn't have the connection that Luke had to Anakin.

    Luke kinda becomes more and more like Obiwan then his father as the OT goes on. When looking at lukes character the most important people in his development are two people who we only see bits and pieces of in 3 films(ANH, AOTC and ROTS). They raised the son of a stepbrother they didn't really know. They gave him the type of upbrining that neither Schmi nor the Jedi could ever have given his father. It is from Owen and Beru Lars that Luke gets the moral compass that allows him to be the hero he became They like Obiwan also gave their lives for him. Although he chafed under their discpline I imagine Luke realized how much the risked and what they did for him after Rotj. Lukes personality is really shaped by his uncle, aunt, and the short time that he spent with obiwan. He is able to do the things he does because he had the moral compass that Anakin did not have. Luke was just as tempted to turn as his father did but one of the things that kept from falling might have been that he knew if he gave in that Obiwan, Owen, Beru, and Biggs would have given their lives for nothing. Like obiwan his life falls apart but instead of giving in and doing what he knows is wrong he stays true to the light. He is faced with the same choices his father was but he doesn't give in. Luke is in essence what Anakin should have been.
     
  3. Fat_Bird

    Fat_Bird Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 1, 2005
     
  4. RebelScum77

    RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 3, 2003
    You don't have to like that Anakin is the central character, but that doesn't change the fact that he is. George himself has said so multiple times and the movies are clearly laid out as such.
     
  5. woodlebert1

    woodlebert1 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 17, 2005
    Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?

    luke. simple as
     
  6. TheCRZA

    TheCRZA Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 29, 2005
    I think Anakin is the hero thru and thru.
    Just because he's evil doesn't mean we're not rooting
    for him. I mean, tell me after seeing the PT
    you're not rooting for him to pull his head out
    of it and fulfill his destiny.
     
  7. Darth_Zoo

    Darth_Zoo Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 15, 2002
    Maybe Obi won.... maybe Luke.... maybe Yoda. I don't know there are a lot of heros really.
     
  8. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 12, 2003
    Looking at all six movies together:

    Anakin is a hero through most of the PT, but he cannot be considered to be the hero of the OT (or most of RotS), except for those few minutes at the end of RotJ.

    Luke is the hero of the OT, but he cannot be the main hero of the saga because he isn't in the PT for more than a minute or so. Likewise with Leia.

    Obi-wan is a big hero in the PT, but in the OT he is more of a guiding light for Luke, not a hero per say. Yoda is similar, and he doesn't even show up in ANH.

    What we're left with are the droids, the only ones who remain heroic throughout the entire six (certain Threepio moments aside.) This makes sense, since GL originally intended for the saga to be about them, IIRC.

    So, IMHO, the droids are the heroes of the saga, Anakin/Obi-wan are the heroes of the PT, and Luke/Han/Leia are the heroes of the OT.
     
  9. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    I think that Anakin is by far the protagonist of the story and the center of the saga, so from that point of view I'd agree he's the hero.

    However from the point of view of the hero being the one who does the right thing and saves the day I'd say the heroes of Star Wars are equally Obi-Wan and Luke, and Palpatine being the villain.

    After all the protagonist isn't always the hero.
     
  10. ComicDiva

    ComicDiva Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 27, 2004
    The Skywalker family is the hero of the story...
     
  11. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Even as the villian of the OT, he's still the central character of the story. The whole story starts and stops with him. There is no denying it. Everything that Anakin goes through is part of what makes him who he is. He starts as the classic hero, but then sucumbs to his inner demons and is transformed into a great evil. We then follow him during his regin of evil, as he becomes very much a Sith Lord in the grandest sense. But then he becomes obsessed with Luke, which leads to a confrontation between the two. And it is from this confrontation that Anakin's story truly resumes, as we now see that Vader is becoming conflicted. He is changing back into Anakin and he must now struggle between the light and the dark. His son's own personal journey reflects his previous journey. But Luke shows him where he made the mistake and avoids it. This helps Anakin to come back and do the right thing, after all these years. Anakin has come full circle and fulfills his destiny, completing his journey. We end with the redeemed Anakin standing with his Master and his Master's Master, while his children are reunited with each other and their friends, ready to face the future.
     
  12. CJedi72

    CJedi72 Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Sep 29, 2005


    Except the original SW wasn't written as Darth Vader being Lukes father, so that episode sticks out like a sore thumb now. The movie is the basic premise of Good vs Evil, and it follows Lukes journey, and Vader is just a really cool bad guy, cause Lucas didn't know if he'd be able to make sequels, made the story a basic standalone movie.

    There is no sense of Anakins struggle in the original SW, if watching it 1-6, the whole movie comes out of left field, because it wasn't written that way, and if you are watching it as Anakins struggle, you're watching the whole movie in the wrong context cause it wasn't there.

    This isn't a PT vs OT fight, cause Episodes I, II, III, V, VI, were written with Vader as Lukes father, and even the the OT was always about Luke overall, being Vader's story for ESB & ROTJ does fit with the PT, but not for the original Star Wars. If you are watching Episode IV for the first time, and watching it as Darth Vaders struggle, I guarantee you will think it is one of the worst of the six, cause it won't totally fit with the first three movies, and I feel by watching it as Lukes journey and a simple good vs evil movie, it still holds up as the classic it was in 1977.

    Bottom line: The PT is focused on Darth Vader as the main character, and his fall along with the rise of Palpatine and the Empire. The OT is focused on Luke's character, hence every ending focuses on him, and the side story is the redemption of Vader, which doesn't happen till ROTJ.
     
  13. Fat_Bird

    Fat_Bird Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 1, 2005

    Bottom line: The PT is focused on Darth Vader as the main character, and his fall along with the rise of Palpatine and the Empire. The OT is focused on Luke's character, hence every ending focuses on him, and the side story is the redemption of Vader, which doesn't happen till ROTJ.



    Exactly. And may I add that Vader's "redemption" only mattered because he was Luke's father. It wasn't a case of the central character of the saga finally being redeemed by his son. It was the case of the central character of the OT redeeming his father. That fact can't be changed years later because GL decided that suddenly the entire story has always been about Anakin/Vader. As if we are all supposed to ignore what we saw and thought when we first saw the OT? Hardly. :rolleyes:
     
  14. CJedi72

    CJedi72 Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Sep 29, 2005
    This is the exact paragraph I found on the internet taken from Vanity Fair May 2005 when Lucas was promoting ROTS.

    Taken as a whole, the six Star Wars movies form the biography of Darth Vader?something Lucas claims he wasn't consciously aware of "until 1988." It's strange to think that this filmmaker with a popcorn reputation has spent 33 years telling the story of a failed, pathetic monster who isn't redeemed until his last few breaths. Revenge of the Sith, dark as it may be, is likely to end on a note of hope, however: little Luke and Leia being spirited away from their dark father to the safety of their separate adoptive parents. Their work against the Empire will eventually bring Darth Vader back to humanity, back to his Anakin state, something Lucas underscored by digitally dropping in Christensen's mug on the Anakin spirit that nods approvingly to Luke in the finale of his most recently revised version of Return of the Jedi, released last year on DVD.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke.
     
  15. Fat_Bird

    Fat_Bird Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 1, 2005

    For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke.



    Which is what I've been saying! I just don't get why GL thinks he can change things after the fact. There's no way I can watch the OT and think of it as Vader's story. It just isn't going to happen!
     
  16. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Because it's his story. He can tell it the way he likes. He isn't saying that's the way you have to view it; he's saying that's the way he views it. And as the storyteller, I'd say his viewpoint rather overrules yours when it comes to how to look at the story. ;)
     
  17. CJedi72

    CJedi72 Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Sep 29, 2005



    You're missing his point, Lucas keeps saying that he always had this story of the biography of Darth Vader, and if you read my quote above, it isn't true.

    If you want to watch it as the story of Darth Vader and I want to watch it as part Vader/part Lukes story, that isn't the issue, anyone can watch it the way they want. But Lucas tells everyone, and alot of fans believe him, that it has always been the story of Darth Vader since his notes in the 70's. Again, read Lucas's quote from May, where he didn't really realize it was the story of Vader til after ROTJ, that means to me by looking at things logically, the OT was made around the hero of Luke.
     
  18. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000


    Note: Realize. That doesn't mean Vader is not the key antagonist of the OT, and in alot of ways, the central character.

    ..Just for example:

    ANH:

    -Vader's the first main we see in ANH. A large portion of the film is from his point of view, and he's the cause of practically the entire film, from chasing Leia over Tatooine and thereby introducing Luke, to trailing the Falcon to Yavin IV and allowing the end space battle to happen, as well as killing off another main during the Death Star sequence.

    TESB:

    -Vader is mentioned by name in the opening crawl. It's his plan to capture Luke that is the main focus of a majority of the film-everything along the storyline with the exception of Luke going to Dagobah is due to his actions. He utterly dominates this film, and is again the driving force behind the events.

    ROTJ:

    -Vader is, again, the first main character we're familiar with that we see. While ROTJ is more of a Luke-driven movie than Empire and ANH were, the main plot winds up, again, being primarily about Vader, and in this case, his redemption.

    Even if George didn't *realize* the OT was mostly about and driven by Vader, that doesn't mean it wasn't about him. Yes, Luke is the hero-but to say Vader is not the central figure is incorrect.

    To put it simply:

    THe PT is from the POV of Obi-Wan, but it's largely *about* Anakin, and driven by him.

    THe OT is from the POV of Luke, but it's largely *about* Vader, and driven by him.

    And as a whole, the saga is clearly about Anakin/Vader, and is driven by him.

     
  19. Fat_Bird

    Fat_Bird Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 1, 2005
    I don't care if it's Lucas's story. As a moviegoer, I have the right to take away from a movie what I choose to (the whole "art is subjective" deal). As a Star Wars fan who was around when the OT was released, I have the right to keep my impressions of those movies regardless of GL's later re-writing. GL is not the God of SW. I don't HAVE to buy into his lame re-writings ,contradictions and excuses. He can make any claims he wants to, but I have a brain. He doesn't do my thinking for me.

    It seems to me that younger fans (those who weren't around when the OT was released) have a much easier time buying into what GL now claims than those of us who grew up with the OT.
     
  20. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Oct 2, 2000
    So, insults towards fans who happen to agree with Lucas aside, I think it's pretty clear that Luke is THE hero of Star Wars. Anakin had the chance to be the hero, but he blew it. Luke then cleaned up the mess that his father had created.



    Heroes - they are neat
    /LM
     
  21. soxtalon

    soxtalon Jedi Master star 3

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    Aug 16, 2002
    You are free to take away what you will of it.

    But you are wrong.

    That simple. George is the storyteller, he is the ULTIMATE authority on who's story it is. If you interpret it a different way, than that is your own version of it...but the official version is clear.

    The story is about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

    I grew up with the OT and even before the PT came out, I knew that.

    Return of the Jedi? What do you think that meant? The Jedi order? NO...It meant Return of Anakin to the Light Side. THe Jedi, THe Chosen one...thus John Williams' use of the Jedi Theme when it happens.

     
  22. soxtalon

    soxtalon Jedi Master star 3

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Luke was a tool to helping Anakin fulfil the other part of his destiny.

    Anakin needed to change the Jedi order and destroy the sith. Luke was his tool to return.

    So Luke is A hero...not The hero. The hero, as tragic as it is...is Anakin.
     
  23. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000

    No, we just register insulting people when you haven't got any actual facts on your side doesn't prove anything beyond your own arrogance. :)
     
  24. CJedi72

    CJedi72 Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Sep 29, 2005
     
  25. RebelScum77

    RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 3, 2003
    This is a complex question because it's pretty easy to look at the Saga from a too simplistic viewpoint. But it was that simple when we only had the OT. However the PT has completely changed the overall meaning of the Saga. It is suddenly not the story of archetypal hero Luke and his archetypal battle aganist evil. That element is certainly still there, but now the overreaching story arc is that of tragic hero Anakin, his rise, fall and eventual redemption. Though he may not be the traditional hero that Luke is, he is the hero of the overall Saga. The story is not a simple one, it's not even a happy one. It is a tragedy in the same vein of Shakespeare. The difference is that eventually Lucas' redeems his hero, it does end happily like the old serials he based it off. The reason it's difficult to pin down is because of the two elements, he took a simple serial sci-fi story and gave it very complex characters largely based Joseph Campbell's archetypes, also used by Shakespeare and the like. Anakin Skywalker is the backbone of this tale, it is the story of his life, his family and his impact on the world.
     
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