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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Who Will Be The Next Legends Character Made Canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darkslayer, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2016
    I'm surprised that TFU isn't canon at all. Disney nuked 99% of the canon, but kept a lot of G-Canon. TFU was G-Canon, IIRC, and was marketed as a very important story. For whatever reason it wasnt kept. Strange.
     
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  2. Kev-Mas_Colcha

    Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 15, 2002
    It wasn't kept because it wasn't​ a feasible story.

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  3. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I liked TFU a lot-Vader and Palpatine setting up the rebellion indirectly is very ironic. It also gives a lot of information regarding Palpatine and Vader's relationship. Vader clearly wants to overthrow Palpatine but is cautious about it. He wants to use Marek yet also clearly sees potential in him. Palpatine is also quite conscious of that fact and you can see by the beginning of the OT era wants Vader replaced.

    I loved the first game.
     
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  4. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 5, 2017
    The Force Unleashed takes away agency from actually interesting characters so Generic White Dude Action Protagonist seems more badass, while making the rest of the franchise make little sense at all.
     
  5. Kev-Mas_Colcha

    Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 15, 2002
    Exactly. It also makes characters such as the Inquisitors (which weren't invented for use in Rebels and originally were an Imperial organization in the Expanded Universe with the purpose of operating Imperial Intelligence and hunting Force users) pointless. Where were they in the game for that matter? Most definitely Vader should've seen the necessity to deploy them.

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  6. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 22, 2005
    While Starkiller was flashy, he was not all-powerful at all. Even that sequence with the Star Destroyer was a ship that was already crashing, and it took me over a dozen reloads before I finished that sequence correctly.

    I even quit playing the Force Unleashed 2 because the Imperial army was too much for me when playing as Starkiller. If he was as powerful as has been hyped up, the game would be a breeze.

    It's not clear why you would stay Starkiller's existence doesn't make sense... He's a secret apprentice of Vader supposedly to take down the Emperor, but he's basically Vader's weapon. He's really no different from an Inquisitor. Starkiller's existence doesn't make any less sense than the existence of the Grand Inquisitor, Fifth Brother, Seventh Sister, or Snoke.

    In comparison to Snoke, at least we are given an explanation of what Starkiller was doing before the OT (training under Vader) and why he doesn't show up in the OT (although TFU 2 ended with a cliffhanger, it's obvious Boba killed Starkiller and rescued Vader). So why does his existence not make sense? We are given an explanation, even though the story was left unfinished.

    If anyone does not make sense, it's Snoke. We have no explanation why someone as powerful as Snoke was apparently sitting around during the movie timeframe (the TFA novel reveals he was around then). Maybe future movies will explain this, but Starkiller only needed 1 work to explain his existence (TFU), while Snoke needs more than one.
     
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  7. Kev-Mas_Colcha

    Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 15, 2002
    Is the rule of two not enough?

    Starkiller was trained as a Sith, not a Dark Jedi like the Imperial Dark Side Adepts that you mentioned. That's why he doesn't make sense.

    Also, no, Snoke makes more sense, because it's 30 years after Endor. Also, beings as powerful as him did exist in Imperial circles, such as Blackhole/Cronal.

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  8. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Vader and Palpatine didn't seem overly concerned about the Rule of Two in the OT when attempting to recruit Luke. It's completely believable they weren't bothering with it a few years earlier regarding Starkiller. Even in the PT, we had Ventress and the Nightsisters running around with absurd power levels (Starkiller's overpowered? Mother Talzin can turn into mist, make zombies, etc.) Palpatine had Ventress and her gang taken down once she got too powerful, and we see Palpatine do the same with Starkiller once he gets too powerful. The Sith aren't treating Starkiller any different than the rest of their previous henchmen.

    Also, if you see the material about the making of TFU, George Lucas personally OK'd Starkiller and saw the demo of him doing over the top Force stuff. If George thought Starkiller was not right for his universe, he would have said so (the way he personally vetoed Yoda being a Whill and a whole line of trading cards featuring this).

    I don't know what Lucas thought of Snoke, but I doubt he's Lucas-related at all (JJ, Kathy Kennedy, Kasdan, etc scrapped Lucas' treatment and started from scratch). Whoever Lucas thought of for his antagonist, it may (or may not) feel like it makes more sense in the Star Wars universe.
     
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  9. Ithorians

    Ithorians Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Jerec would be my number one choice for coming back to canon. I just really like that character: he´s very different from other Star Wars antagonists, and yet he fits very nicely within the lore.

    If I remember correctly, in legends Jerec kept his ambitions in check to make sure to avoid any hostility from the Emperor, after being restricted from Sith information sources by him. I believe that he did start the construction of his SSD after Hoth, but I think this can be understood because in legends Palpatine wanted more darksiders at his side, no less like in canon, and Jerec was one of the highest ranking ones.

    I get the idea that only with the Emperor´s demise and him openly pursuing the Valley of the Jedi (instructed to do so by Cronal, btw) he began pulling resources from the Empire heavily...

    In canon, he could be added up to at least two current storylines, since he was a High Inquisitor and used to have Thrawn as captain of his flagship. Still, Kyle Katarn would be a nice choice too, and so would be Mara Jade, but I think at this point it´s clear that I´m talking from my childhood love of the Dark Forces series!
     
  10. Kev-Mas_Colcha

    Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 15, 2002
    That's because Vader had planned to overthrow the Emperor with Luke's help, and the Emperor had planned to replace Vader with Luke. That's how advancement with the Rule of Two works. Also, Ventress was a Dark Acolyte. She didn't have access to Sith knowledge and Dooku was forbidden to teach it to her. She was a Dark Jedi. Then in the case of the Nightsisters they're Force users of another kind entirely, and their powers go beyond the standard dark/light dichotomy. It's more akin to magic. They're called witches for a reason. Then in their case, once Sidious learned more about them he sought to destroy them AND HE DID. The Sith ARE treating Starkiller differently, or at least Vader is because he's teaching him Sith knowledge behind Sidious' back. Considering how Vader is living in a cybernetic life support suit and Sidious is proficient in Force Lightning beyond the insulation properties Vader's suit has (which was intentional and Vader knows this), it is beyond reason for him to do something like this. He fears the Emperor's power and wouldn't knowingly betray him. Even if he did, the fact that he was able to train him up to the levels that he did does not make much sense because the Emperor is able to foresee the future and it would make more sense for him to just snuff him out while he was in training as a young child.

    If you might also remember, on several occasions Lucas has been asked about Expanded Universe items he also OK'd and what happened was that he either said he didn't remember or he even said that it didn't happen. As far as George was concerned (in that era anyways, towards the beginning he was a little more involved), if it had the opportunity to make money he would sign off on it. When it came to licensed content, he cared about profit, not quality of storytelling or continuity. Also, seeing his obsession with special effects it would make sense that he would have approved with the demo - the over the top Force stuff was designed so that it would show off the special effects of the game engine.

    Lucas was and is indeed not involved with the sequel trilogy, and the way I see it, that's a good thing. The relatively low quality of the prequels and the convoluted canon tiering system is a definite sign that he had lost his touch and a fresher take was needed. Starkiller, in my opinion is not an example of a fresher take.

    I think the most that we're going to get as far as him being recanonized has already happened (Galen Erso, Starkiller Base), and that's the way it should be.

    That being said, if he does indeed become recanonized, it would make more sense for him to be timeshifted to the next sequel trilogy (considering that Disney said they would keep making them after Episode IX).
     
  11. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 5, 2017
    Plus, we don't know the origin of Snoke, so comparing him to Starkiller is pointleses.
     
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  12. spicer

    spicer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2012
    It would depend how powerful Jerec is in the new canon. It's pretty safe to assume he's not nearly as powerful as Palpatine or Vader, just as he was in Legends.
     
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  13. RafSwi7

    RafSwi7 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Revan was also male in "the Chronicles of the Old Republic" (the historical background for the TSL) which was the part of now defunct homepage of the second game. In other words male Revan was a thing even before KotORII.

    The Old Republic has "only" established his a face and post KoTOR character.
     
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  14. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    I guess. A sightless Inquisitor would be fitting opponent for blind Kanan.
     
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  15. Blackhole E Snoke

    Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 26, 2016

    Nothing written in The Chronicles the old Republic articles describes Revan as a man. English has no unspecified/unknown gender third person pronouns. Although today it is an unpopular thing, it is still correct English to use He/his/him when talking about a person of unknown gender.
     
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  16. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 19, 2016
    Well the game had way to many Sovereign Protectors in it. Those guys should be rare. I think it would have been better if Inquisitors replaced them on every level except Bespin.
     
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  17. RafSwi7

    RafSwi7 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Oh, please... maybe they simply used it that way because they determined that male Revan will be canonical (by the Holocron).

    They never do the same for the Exile in the "Chronicles" where she (there was no canon gender for her at time) was only referred as the Jedi or the Jedi Knight without using he/his/him. What about "The New Essential Guide to Droids" from 2007 which refers to Revan as "he" and the Exile as "she"? What about the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide from 2008 that mentions romance between Revan and Bastila?
     
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  18. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 5, 2017
    Canon or not, a female Revan is just more interesting.
     
  19. RafSwi7

    RafSwi7 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 3, 2011
    How, so?

    Except for their gender they are pretty much the same characters (which they really are - same character traits, accomplishments etc.).

    For me male Revan in no more or less interesting than female Revan as the character.

    The only thing that make them different are their "romances". In that matter I find Revan's relationship with Bastila as better written and WAY more important and tied to the storyline and its themes than Revan's relationship with Carth.
     
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  20. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    What whoah there-it completely makes sense. "Generic white dude" what?
     
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  21. Blackhole E Snoke

    Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 26, 2016

    The Exile is only mentioned in two or three sentences where you can get away with repeating "The Jedi knight" or "The knight" a few times. Revan has whole paragraphs written about him and if you replace all the he/his/him with "Revan" it just sounds ridiculous. There is also this sentence - Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge.
    What word could you replace the He with? There isn't one.

    Writing for SWTOR began in 2006 so anything released after that would naturally have Revan male and the Exile female.
     
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  22. Taylore

    Taylore Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2017
    As far as big characters go, I'd say Mara Jade or Talon Karrde (Thrawn's contemporaries).

    Old Republic characters such as Revan will have their time, but unless it's via a mention in later stories, probably not for a while yet.

    Winter, as someone else said, would be a really cool character for Rebels or the comics.

    The Han Solo film is interesting because we know so little about setting so far. I'm not sure which character might appear first in that film, though--maybe Karrde.
     
  23. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Lawrence Kasdan, the writer for the Han Solo film, doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would know anything about the EU to include someone like Talon Karrde--he may not even have known who Darth Plagueis was if a convention appearance is to be believed (in contrast to George Lucas, who at least had some peripheral knowledge of EU characters like Aayla Secura and Quinlan Vos to include them in the prequels). I wouldn't hold my breath on any EU characters showing up in that Han Solo film.
     
  24. Counter

    Counter Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Keep Mara in Legends. Bringing her back will necessitate a rewriting of her story (both past and present) and would likely just result in fans being disappointed or angry. There's no winning there.
     
  25. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Kasdan won't be writing this in a bubble - like all SW material, it will be written in collaboration with the Story Group, which contains people like Pablo and Leland who are extremely knowledgeable about the EU.


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