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Who will discover that Palps=Sidious?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by EMPEROR_WINDU, Dec 30, 2003.

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  1. EMPEROR_WINDU

    EMPEROR_WINDU Jedi Master star 5

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    Nov 23, 2002
    so, who will it be? i think it's mace, it wouldset up a battle beteen him and sidious with vader joining in....

    Speculate at will...
     
  2. Kavic_Toth

    Kavic_Toth Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    I actually already hit on my theory of this on the Bail Organa thread, but to make it someone that no one would be expecting, I feel it will be Bail. This would expand his role into breaking with Palps/Sidious, he would want to immediately inform the Jedi, they would in turn rebel against Palps/Sidious, etc, etc... it sets up a nice snowball effect.

    Of course, there's always Jar Jar... and no one believes him in time... and the Empire comes to pass... 8-}
     
  3. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    I don't think the audience will find out till Return of the Jedi. I think the imperial take over will be mysterious and you don't really know what happened to Palps. And then in ROTJ you suddenly hear Palaptine's name being associated with the sith master.
     
  4. Ghost_Jedi

    Ghost_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2003
    I see that you decided to take Garth_Maul's suggestion. Good job there Emp_Windu.

    I don't think it will be Bail. I think that if someone was to findout, Palps would want to take action right away, and prevent them from telling anyone. And 18 years to me is not right away.

    Kavic, I do like your idea about it being Jar Jar though. After all, who would be foolish enough to follow the fool, and believe that Palps=Sith, in which most of the Senate believes is RIP. I could see Jar Jar, innocently enough going to talk to Palps about something, maybe Naboo, and see Palps w/ Dooku or something. Who knows. Then Jar Jar goes to try and tell the Jedi, and is dismissed. Or he goes tell Ahnnniiii, who already falls, and silences him. This would give Jar Jar good closure, and a nice end from where he began. Also could be used to show the change in Anakin.

    I do think the Jedi will find out though, which will lead to Purge.

    Edit
    My 200th Post :) :) :) :) :)
     
  5. EMPEROR_WINDU

    EMPEROR_WINDU Jedi Master star 5

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    Nov 23, 2002
    ^^^that would tie in very nicely with jar jar's character....although i still think it will be mace windu or another jedi...if/when the clones turn on their jedi commanders, mace needs to have a talk with palps and since palpatine cannot reasonably explain why his army would start killig the defenders of the republic, he reveals himself to windu and they fight for a little while, then as mace is moving in for the kill, out pops darth vader(not in armor) and saves sidious...thn we have ourselves a little 2 on 1 action, maybe mace is killed and maybe yoda shows up and joins the fight? who knows, iguess we'll fin out in may 2005!
     
  6. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Nice theory on Mace there. I always imagined it would be Obi-Wan, though, but Mace would be a better choice now that I think about it. Maybe Obi is with Mace and they both find out at the same time?

    Seldon: The name Palpatine is never used in the OT, so it wouldn´t work to not show the audience in EpIII.
     
  7. stormcloud8

    stormcloud8 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 24, 2002
    I think that Palpatine will intentionally tell Obi-Wan about it after the Clone Wars have been settled. He will call Obi-Wan into his office, and then reveal the truth to him. Perhaps Obi-Wan will try to fight him, but will be thrown out of the off the office by a combination of Palpatine's powers and a stream of Imperial Guards. Palpatine will not want Obi-Wan killed, because his reason for revealing the truth to him will be to drive the final wedge between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

    Whatever the specifics of the scene may be, I do think that it will be Obi-Wan who first learns the truth. In AOTC, he became the center of the larger Galatic story (with Anakin being the center of the smaller, more personal side of the film), learning the truth about Kamino and the clones and Sidious. I think he will continue in this role in III.

    I think Palpatine's motivation to directly communicate his identity to Obi-Wan will be to drive the last, final wedge between him and Anakin. When Obi-Wan tells the truth about this to Anakin, obviously Anakin's loyalty to the Chancellor would tug him in different directions. Palpatine has clearly been manipulating Anakin for some time, both directly and in-directly, and telling Obi-Wan the truth about the Sith would be his final ploy to break the bond between Master and Padawan, to complete the conversion of the Chosen One to the Dark Side. Frankly, if Obi-Wan came to Anakin and told him that the Chancellor is a Dark Lord of the Sith, Anakin would probably completely disbelieve him and might confront/fight Obi-Wan right on the spot.
     
  8. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    I don´t think Palpatine would want Anakin to believe that the Sith are bad. First, he will have him think that the Jedi are evil, by making it look as if the Jedi are traitors of the Republic. Then, he will offer Anakin the chance to join the Sith instead.
    Maybe he´ll do so by having Obi-Wan trying to tell the truth, I don´t know. All I know is that it´s gonna be good [face_devil]
     
  9. Ghost_Jedi

    Ghost_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Great points there both emp_Windu, lars & sc8 as picked up on points that I have seem to have forgotton about. Obi truely is, more so than any other Jedi, at the center of Palps plot. He was, along side Qui Jonn, even the first Jedi to know that the Sith have returned. However, when Palps makes his final sales pitch to Anakin, I think he will focus on Anakin's weakness, which is his quest for power and more power. He will tell Anakin that he is being restrained by the Jedi, and if he joined him he will reach his fullest potential. I just dont think he will let Obi know. I think Obi might realize, but only after Anakin falls, and obi tries to redeem Anakin, while denouncing Palps & the Sith, which will be the final wedge.

    Also J L Windu, I forgot that the clone troopers eventually will turn on their Jedi Commanders. How and at what point regarding Anakin's fall, Lucas does that should be interesting.
     
  10. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    Ah yes, so many possibilities.

    I had always thought it would be Obi-Wan, in the manner that stormcloud and Lars mentioned, or possibly Mace.

    Yet I can see it being Bail Organa or possibly Jar-Jar. It would be a good use of Jar-Jar's character and it would be ironic, but we already had a similar usage of Jar-Jar in AOTC giving Palps dictatorial powers.

    I think it may be too redundant.

    Remember that this is Sidious' (and all the Sith) revenge against the Jedi - in his moment of triumph, who better to reveal his victory to than one of the Jedi?

    Mace makes sense because he represents the Jedi Order at the time of the PT, and his fall symbolizes the fall of the Republic, so I can see a scenario similar to what Emperor Windu has mentioned.

    But it makes just as much sense to reveal it to Obi-Wan - Obi-Wan, as mentioned above, will run to Anakin, yet Anakin will refuse to believe.

    Especially because I'm sure by that point in the movie, we'll have seen Palps having a conversation with Anakin, making Anakin suspicious or resentful towards the Jedi. Or that Obi-Wan is jealous of Anakin's relationship with Palpatine.

    And when Obi-Wan comes running to Anakin, telling him that the Chancellor of the Republic is actually a Sith Lord, Anakin will (a) think Obi-Wan is crazy and/or lying, or

    (b) will already know and won't care - because Palps has poisoned him against the politics of the Republic (and the need for a "benevolent" dictator) and has shown him the power of the Sith to be superior to that of the Jedi.


    Sweeeeeeeet.
     
  11. stormcloud8

    stormcloud8 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 24, 2002
    I like option 'B' above...by that point, Anakin won't care. I can see him with an arrogant smile on his face, proud of his new position of importance with the Chancellor (Emperor by that point?).

    Obi-Wan: Anakin, you must believe me, Palpatine IS Darth Sidious, a Dark Lord of the Sith!

    Anakin: So? Maybe it's time for something new. The Jedi Order has failed, its time is past. We need strength and power to rule the galaxy, to avoid the corruption and mistakes of the past. If the Sith can offer us that power, then maybe it is their turn to rule...OUR turn to rule...

    Obi-Wan: 'Our' turn? What do you mean, Anakin? What has Sidious done to you?

    Anakin: He has shown me the TRUE nature of the force. And my true destiny. And now I will share it with you. You won't hold me back anymore, Obi-Wan.
     
  12. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

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    Aug 24, 2002
    I want to say Yoda or Obi-wan will find out.
     
  13. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 18, 2002
    Is that speculation or a veiled reference to a spoiler?


    EDIT: Edited my reference to a possible veiled reference to a spoiler. 8-}

    Thanks for taking care of that, anidamani.

    Not many people are arguing for Yoda. Is that strange?
     
  14. EMPEROR_WINDU

    EMPEROR_WINDU Jedi Master star 5

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    Nov 23, 2002
    i hate posts like that....dont even hint at ruling out anyone...wel im gunna rule out Ex-Supreme Chancellor Valorum, but other than that, dont rule anyone out!
     
  15. Kavic_Toth

    Kavic_Toth Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 9, 2002
    ^^^I don't know, E_W... I'm pretty sure there are a few we can rule out...

    TK-421... the Probe Droid... Greedo...

    Perhaps that should be the evolution thread from this one...

    Characters we know have NO CHANCE at discovering Palps=Sidious


    EDIT: Man, my typing has been attrocious tonight... this is the second one!
     
  16. EMPEROR_WINDU

    EMPEROR_WINDU Jedi Master star 5

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    Nov 23, 2002
    ^^^haha i suppose so, i just said it because the anidamni person was veiling at a spoiler until she edited it, and i didnt get back her to edit mine....i bet it WAS greedo, he hasnt been seen since Episode I
     
  17. Ghost_Jedi

    Ghost_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 27, 2003
    Can we rule out syfo-dyas?
     
  18. Kavic_Toth

    Kavic_Toth Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 9, 2002
    i bet it WAS greedo, he hasnt been seen since Episode I

    LOL... I'd say that would bring closure to the character, but we already know his 'closure' (and YES, Han shot first!!!).

    Can we rule out syfo-dyas?

    The sad part is, I wouldn't say yes to that too quickly... perhaps old Syfo is only playing possum... there's still something to come about him.
     
  19. Stridarious

    Stridarious Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Nah, I say Jar Jar Binks will be the one to find it out... 8-}

    Or either that Jar Jar is a Sith! [face_laugh]
     
  20. DamonD

    DamonD Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 22, 2002
    "Mesa showin' you de TRUE nature of de Force now, okeyday?"
     
  21. EMPEROR_WINDU

    EMPEROR_WINDU Jedi Master star 5

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    Nov 23, 2002
    Damon D, you crack me up hahahahahahahaha
     
  22. PloKloon1138

    PloKloon1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2001
    I agree with the notion that JJ finding out about Palps would too closely mirror his giving the emergency powers in AOTC. Out of all the possibilities, I think I like Obi-Wan finding out the most. :D
     
  23. Ghost_Jedi

    Ghost_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2003
    I agree with the notion that JJ finding out about Palps would too closely mirror his giving the emergency powers in AOTC.

    How??

    If anything, I think it would be a staunch contrast to it. Here Palps is manipulating Jar Jar to give him the powers that Padme never would. Than in epIII he is the first to discover Palps has been manipulating evryone since before TPM. It would be a nice contrast to show in JarJar, and contrast should be mistaken for being uncreative or lazy, which the haters often do.

    Now I am not saying it will happen, but it would be cool to show gorwth in JJ. And a cool reason for his demise. It would not be a simple reflection or repitition, but contrast and growth.
     
  24. Kavic_Toth

    Kavic_Toth Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    I can see it now...

    Anakin, hunting down the Sith Lord to slay and take his place as apprentice to the Emporer, walks into the darkened hanger, sensing the evil presence of the other.

    Suddenly, a shaft of light and an ominous hum fill the air as the red spiral lightsaber flashes to life.

    "So, you'sa thinks your Force skills SO big. You'sa think you slay me, take'a place as 'prentice. Not so okey-day with me!"

    Anakin is momentarily stunned by the realization that Jar Jar Binks, his friend and comrade from so long ago, is in reality the dreaded Sith lord, Darth Kaotic.
     
  25. Cow_Girl

    Cow_Girl Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2001
    I think that it will be Anakin, he will be the first to discover the truth. Anakin has a great respect for palpatine, Palpatine has asked as a mentor for Anakin, and in there little exchange during Episode 2, I could feel Anakins great respect for this man.

    Palpentine has a way with words, and is able to tell Anakin just what he wants to hear "I can tell you will become a Great Jedi" and he will somehow be able to convince Anakin to Join him and keep his identidy a secret, even before Anakin becomes Vader.
     
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