ST Who's The Baddie?

Kylo Ren is definitely the physical antagonist of The Force Awakens, but I certainly believe the real phantom menace is going to be an ancient Sith; possibly Plagueius, but I hope it's Darth Bane, truly ancient. The First Order looks and feels very much like a cult in the vein of the Third Reich, and Kylo is leading a supernatural crusade, uncovering relics of the past to resurrect in our physical plane an ancient Sith Lord. Even looking at the individuals on the podium, standing in front of the First Order's banner, we see what looks like a Dark Council; four black robed humans on either side of a single, lone figure, so nine in all. I don't think the center figure is either Kylo or the phantom menace, but it does give the vibe of a sick perversion of the Jedi Council and the celebrations at the end of ANH and TPM.

 

Oh I agree something very ancient is behind the chaos in the galaxy. But it is much, MUCH older than Bane and Plagueis. Something older than both the Sith Lordship and Jedi Knighthood. Remember the third season of the Clone Wars tv show? In particular the episodes dealing with the Mortis Monument? I think the real power behind the First Order is the Son (Brother)-Of-The-Dark! The Mortis Monument 'space station' was powered by the Force itself and likely can twist reality itself. The Son (Brother) can possess people and therefore can hide inside anyone. That makes the Sith look petty by comparison. Remember on the set of Episode VII Andy Serkis's character was called 'Uber'. That means super or over. The first of the Clone War episodes I mentioned is titled Overlords. Plus they described Serkis's character as zombie-like. Well the Son (Brother) fit that bill. If you are a Stephen King fan...the Son ( Brother ) is somewhat like IT and the hate-fed entity from the classic Trek episode Day Of The Dove combined. The stakes are far higher than Bane and Plagueis. Much, MUCH higher.

 

While it looked like the Son was killed in that arc - it may be that he was only weakened for a time.

 

At Celebration, there was concept art of Imperial officers wearing black trench coats similar to SS officers, and they match those figures on the podium in the trailer exactly. I could be wrong, but I think that's what you're seeing in that scene, and the central figure on the podium is probably Domnhall Gleeson if I had to guess.

 

Darth_Lilapso
Yes, I'd go with something along these lines. I feel that there will be a threat in the ST that is greater, and perhaps more abstract,than the more personal threat that I think Kylo Ren is going to represent.

As I expect that the ST will mirror the OT, I think that we won't get a full understanding of this threat until Ep8, and It'll be Luke who introduces us to the nature of it.

 

Darth_Lilapso Mungo Baobab I think you two will love this conversation that GL and Alan Dean Foster had in 1977 or 1978:

 

Awesome stuff darklordoftech ! I think you have hit the nail on the head. This is part of something that I read some time ago ( it's in the Secret History of Star Wars, isn't it? ), and has been whispering away in my subconcious ever since. I genuinely believe that we can get an insight into the themes of the ST from this.

 

Back when the ST was announced, I thought, "Where can you go after beating The Emperor?" I looked throughout the saga and TCW and Mortis gave me an idea: an "abstract" being. I then read the above GL-ADF discussion and I thought it was interesting that GL had thought about the Sith having an abstract master. Knowing how GL likes to reuse his old concepts, my first reaction was, "evidence for my theory!" I had some discussions about it in this very thread and I wanted to fill you two in on it.

 

I really prefer a real actor than a cgi villain (f.e Grevious)


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darklordoftech, IMO exploring this idea of GL's could give an insight into the title of the movie. I think that the Force awakening will have a double meaning, beyond Rey, etc.

Rick Carter's comments at Celebration have really solidified this for me:
"You can have all of this fancy stuff and a sci-fi movie is whatever it wants to be. Everyone is trying to outgun each other. This isn't about that. This is about the force," said Carter. He said they had entire brainstorms trying to answer one question: "What would frighten us if the dark side came back?"

Carter remained cryptically informative.

"It's right in front of you. This is the movie. It's going from a deep level up. It's confident because there's a real story to be told," he said of the second teaser trailer, which premiered on Thursday during the Celebration kick-off.

He added: "When we say the force awakens it is the dark side and the light side."

---

 

I wonder if the end of the trilogy will end with the destruction of the Dark Side of the Force like in the Supershadow claims.

 

OMG Supershadow was right!!!!

 

Now there's something you don't read every day!

 

It is important to understand that the threesome from the Mortis Monument are sentient archetype patterns that get repeated through history with variations. Every so often they are replaced. I suspect that Luke will ultimately become the 'new' Eternal- Father-Of-Balance that Anakin turned down during the Clone War era. Yoda's line in ROTJ about Luke not looking so good at 900 years old was likely foreshadowing about Luke's destiny. As the new Eternal-Father-Of- Balance Luke will be around for 900 years! Another way to wrap your head around this is think about the role of the 600 year old Grail knight in Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade. That Grail knight is quasi-immortal as long as he remains in the Grail temple. Luke's fate will be sort of like that. Leia may also end up becoming quasi-immortal as the new Sister (daughter)-Of-The-Light. It would allow Disney Studios to 'kill off' Luke and Leia without killing them off. In case they are needed in the films beyond Episode IX. CGI tech will allow Disney to use the images of Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher long after the actors are deceased. Welcome to Disney's meta-fiction grand plan (LOL).

 

Yes, I saw the art aswell. The clothing is clearly inspired by officers of the Nazi regime, but that doesn't ignore there cultist appearance of black robes, the original Imperial Officers looked far more like officers, these men and women look like a cult. As I said it best previously; a perversion of the Jedi Council. The center figure could be Gleeson, it's definitely a white human male, so it isn't Serkis' character. That leaves Driver or Gleeson, if any of the rumors are to go by.

I love that, and it's definitely very abstract while strong enough to solidify this trilogy. For me, though, I simply want it to be Darth Bane. His appearance in TCW was a defining moment for the Sith, and he is a trapped Dark Lord, his presence would be powerful. Perhaps Bane's revival, Kylo's torment, all of it are the machinations of the Son. While I believe the Son died, I really love your theory.

 

The 'old' Son (Brother)-Of-The-Dark is 'dead'...long live the 'new' Son (Brother)-Of-The-Dark. This disembodied evil can and often does take the form of anyone or anything. Sometimes the persons or things it becomes volunteer...sometimes its involuntary. As the Dark Side it is what you fear, hate or desire. Again it is sort of like Stephen King's IT. It has no 'true' ultimate form. Palpatine was merely a pawn in a much older and vaster 'game' that is afoot. That 'game' is called life and death / light and dark / plus and minus. Dualism via space opera. Read your Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell and Frank Herbert folks. Lucas acknowledges those sources are the key to the underpinnings of Star Wars.

 

Interesting. I wonder if Uber is the personification of this devilish entity...

Thanks for posting this. I like the idea.

 

Palpatine may have been a symbolic devil, but he was still a man. He was, if anything, a man possessed.

Sounds like Uber could be a real devil or demonic entity. We have cultish looking figures; it fits.

To be honest, I love devils and demons in horror, but not sure I need them in SW. I'll probably like it, but I'm more interested in human motives in SW.

 

^Agreed. Relatable characters are preferred. Über will probably be in the background like Palpatine in the OT, when he was more of a villainous devil than the man he became in the PT. That seemed to work very well.

 

I do love cults and demons, so I'll keep an open mind.

 

I found Über.

 

Didn't someone a while back say that the villain would kick Pazuzu's ass?

 

I bet either Kylo or the Chrome Trooper will turn good by the end of the second film.

 

Yes, was that Harry Knowles at AICN? Who provided 'The Ancient Fear' title. And there was also a rumor that Lucas wanted to go back to the origins of the conflict between the Jedi and the Sith.

 

All seems to connect to the cultish look of the First Order.