ST Who's The Baddie?

Two problems with this scenario, however:

1.) Wouldn't the redeemed Anakin have warned Luke about this secret apprentice?

2.) Would this secret apprentice be powerful enough to be a threat? Vader didn't really have all of Sidious' dark side knowledge and Sith teachings, so I doubt it could have been passed down to the apprentice.

 

He certainly did in Marvel Star Wars, when his secret apprentice was Flint:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Flint

 

Well, we don't know the true extent of Vader's Sith training - the new canon hasn't really gone into detail.

 

Just because he warns Luke, it doesn't follow that Luke finds Uber.

And the rumors have sometimes indicated that Uber isn't super powerful.

Or if Uber is only pretending to be Vader's apprentice, no need for Vader to warn Luke.

 

But wouldn't that raise the question of why Uber wasn't able to ascend to the same level?

 

That would depend on what kind of person Uber is, his lineage, his power, or the circumstances of his death/fall from the throne. It would be like any classic story with the boss being overthrown.

 

Personally, I don't know if Uber would be Vader's apprentice. That's just me though. I like the idea of Vader himself finding a greater evil, if you will. Perhaps it was this person that even suggested Vader find Luke and convert him to overthrow the Emperor? It would put a whole different spin on Vader's quest in the OT. Maybe there was a promise by Uber to Vader that he would help him, in some way, when he and Luke went before the Emperor? Then the pause of Vader vacillating between his son and Sidious would take on a different meaning entirely - not loyalty to Sidious (who was never loyal to him), but Vader waiting for Uber to intervene? All a plot by Uber to have the galaxy's strongest Force users devour each other.

 

Again, provided Uber isn't Plagueis or some other ancient Sith Lord, it does make we wonder if the character who became Uber is in any of the recent canon material. I haven't read the recent novels or comics yet, so does anyone have any theories on that? If the Marvel universe is anything to go by, Disney sure likes to set characters up for the long haul, so the Uber character could be hiding in plain sight, and we just don't know it yet. I've heard speculation regarding Ezra or Kanan turning to the dark side, so they could be potential Uber candidates (although I'm not sure if I'd like it if they took the story in such a direction).

 

I'm keeping up with the new canon material, and I don't really see any candidates for Uber yet.

The closest thing would be these replacements Palpatine has brought in to kill Vader.

 

Are these guys in the recent Darth Vader comics?

 

They're about to be. We should see them, I think, in the next issue. Vader finds out about them and decides to pay them a visit.

 

Uber better not be Vader's secret apprentice. That's a terrible idea, mainly because it would totally undermine the whole point of Vader trying to turn his son in TESB. The Emperor having one makes far more sense, and the only sense as far as I'm concerned. Having said that, Plagueis being alive and having some apprentice worshipping the legacy of Darth Vader is something new and far more interesting. And if this apprentice just so happens to be Luke Skywalker's long lost love child it would be icing on the cake.

 

It would undermine his appeal to Luke in ESB because?

I don't think I can agree. If he already has an apprentice before Luke, his appeal to Luke simply means he's decided Luke would be a better apprentice.

That this apprentice would feel dumped by Vader and jealous of Luke would be interesting.

 

I completely disagree. I've always had the impression that Vader accepted his fate in those two decades, being subservient to the Emperor in all that time, and that he always feared his master. Always. Until Luke comes around, that is. The existence of his son gave him hope for freedom. In fact, Luke was just as much a new hope to Vader as he was to the Rebellion, but sort of in a mirrored way. He hoped converting Luke would lead to his salvation and the deposition of his master, so that he and his son would rule instead. It doesn't matter what happened in the end, because Vader's intentions before all that clearly tells me that he hoped for a different outcome. To say that he had this apprentice all along really undermines the storytelling of the OT. Because if he had this apprentice, then why didn't he use him to help find Luke?

 

All Sith Lords seemed to have secret apprentices. Dooku had Ventress. Even though he claimed she was just a tool of the darkside, he had his own plans to take control. In the Plagueis novel (even though not canon) Palpatine had Maul while claiming the same thing to Plagueis.

 

Bit of a missed opportunity to not have the Sith shrine beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant feature in TFA. The Tarkin novel is canon, and Sidious basically spent all his time there after Sith according to it. Still, you never know?..

 

Right, and Luke would've been Vader's, with somewhat Palpatine's consent. For a while, anyway.

The point I was trying to make was that this was only after seeing the OT back in the day. However, after seeing the Prequels, I really don't think it has changed my view about Vader and his situation, anyway.

 

Well, I'm not really concerned with the OT, but with the whole story. And Vader is being represented differently in the comics than your personal canon -- he is not giving up to Palpatine, but creating his own army to strengthen himself. He's also getting ready to take down these replacements Palpatine has for him, and he even had Palpatine's flunky killed, so that whole notion that Vader just gave up during these years is contradictory to the canon.

 

Yeah, Dra--- is right about Vader and the new canon.

He's a friggin' monster and more intelligent than how Lucas portrayed him. As I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if First Order was Vader's secret army.

 

Maybe Coruscant will feature in Ep8? I guess it's possible that it's held by the First Order, and that's where Uber is?

I'm also interested in what Sidious was up to in that shrine. I wonder how much influence the story group had on this particular element of the Tarkin novel. I have to think that they gave Luceno quite a bit of direction here, as the book's revelations on Sidious' goals was quite a revelation ( at least to me ), and a very big deal in terms of the saga.

This interview with Luceno elaborates on some of this:
http://star-wars.suvudu.com/2014/11/interview-with-james-luceno-author-star-wars-tarkin.html

I find this section particularly interesting:
I’ll put in my vote for that, because I think there’s a lot to explore there. I mean, you do such a great job of showing how the Emperor really doesn’t care for this whole Empire-building, bureaucratic-wrangling business. He is about the Sith ethos. The Empire seems more like an instrumental resource for him. It exists to facilitate his larger plan.
I see it as his vehicle to the next level. In my mind, he’s coming close to that as we get closer and closer to A New Hope. I’ve always wondered, why does he disband the Senate when he does? Is it simply because the Death Star is moving through space and about to become operational? I think it’s bigger. I think he was really onto something then, that something momentous was about to occur. And he’s undermined when he learns not so much that the Death Star has been destroyed, but that the son of the Chosen One is out there.

 

I think Uber being an apprentice to either Vader or Palpatine is ultimately problematic. Not that it couldn't be written around... but the inference is that the apprentice was not as powerful, therefore the risk is that the audience sees them as being a weaker antagonist and a weaker threat. I believe it’s less problematic to either have a sith that predates Palpatine and Vader or have a Sith/darksider that has no connection to Palpatine and Vader at all. I’d posit that there’s more freedom to write a backstory for Uber that portrays him as someone strong in the force, who went seeking all darkside knowledge (in order to fully empower himself), rather than someone who was under the tutelage of Palaptine or Vader... and rose to the top by default after their deaths.

In terms of how darksiders/Sith are being established in TCW, Rebels and various comics... again, I’d imagine that this is more to establish a universe where Sith/darksiders are not encumbered and restricted by the rule of 2 (which is just a facet of Bane’s order) rather than to overtly show us where Uber comes/came from... For all we know, Uber could be a product of Mother Talzin?

 

Yes, it could totally possible that the secret army he creates in the recent Darth Vader comics evolves to the First Order.

I've noticed that the Jedi Temple was heavily featured in some of the new canon material. Haven't read anything of that yet, but I followed the comments on these boards. It's in Tarkin where this ancient Sith shrine is mentioned, we got a glimpse of it in Darth Vader #1 and in Star Wars #8 Luke will probably head to Coruscant for the Jedi Temple. I have a feeling that the Jedi Temple/Imperial Palace with the Sith shrine beneath it will play a crucial role in the upcoming new canon material, possibly even in the post-ROTJ material.

 

It would be interesting to see if Kylo discovered the darkside by finding something within/below the temple on Coruscant. Perhaps Coruscant is/was his homeworld... that's possible given his supposed lineage?

 

Well, I think that's a mistake. The Sith had won, Palpatine became Emperor, and the Jedi were all purged, except for two. Why create friction between each other when you've achieved all that? It doesn't make any sense.

 

Darth Vader knew he had a son for a long time, and it was always his goal to train him. In ESB he told Luke that they would rule the galaxy together as father and son.

Sure I guess Vader could have had another secret apprentice, but he only really wanted Luke. It's hard to debate that.

The Uber debate is something else altogether. I'm siding with those that are saying he's an ancient Sith lord/prophet. Until I hear something factual to the contrary, I'll go with that until I find out for sure in the movie.