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ST Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    Maybe, maybe not; that could be interpreted in a lot of ways. I was thinking that perhaps it meant he would have a role as a force ghost that was meaningful (again, with the present tense mentioning of his force power along with the other family members). Regardless, that is a plot point around Vader, not Plageuis; I think that is most certainly reaching at this point to say Vader=Plageuis. Anything is possible, but all things considered, very unlikely with all that we know. JJ and co are establishing their own set of villains.
     
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  2. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    It's much more interesting to connect the trilogies with Vader's iconography and mythology rather than Plagueis's. Vader's been much more part of the story, and he has children who are major characters who will probably have children in the ST.

    I was always open to the possibility of Plagueis, but one can't compare the importance of one character to the other in SW because there is no comparison.

    Vader is Star Wars and Plagueis is virtually unknown.

    I also don't see why Snoke "must" be a Sith.

    EDIT: I also agree with Lee_ that JJ and Kasdan were given the opportunity to come up with their own villain(s). They have zero reason to use Plagueis when they can create their own.
     
  3. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 25, 2014
    Not only is it not needed, it would be rather hard to explain. Unless Sidious or Vader left a Sith for Dummies book around, the Sith are no more.

    And I think this will play into Kylo's story. Without a direct line of succession, he must desperately want to be legitimated as a Sith. Hence he is obsessed with collecting the order's artifacts, perhaps in the hope that they can impart some knowledge or power. But now I'm just spit-balling.
     
  4. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    It's sound spit-balling. ;)

    Sith knowledge is lost knowledge but Kylo Ren hopes to find what was lost.

    And incidentally, if Palpatine and Vader didn't have secret apprentices, who comes close to the next best thing?

    Luke Skywalker.

    Not only was he the son of the last Sith, but he was courted by both Palpatine and Vader. That makes Luke a kind of artifact too. Snoke and Ren would probably like to plumb his mind for any possible knowledge.
     
  5. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 25, 2014
    Dra---, I think you might have just unlocked why Kylo wants to find Luke Skywalker. =D=
     
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  6. SkywalkerOG

    SkywalkerOG Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 19, 2014
    Kylo hands luke the bespin saber and says "teach me the powers of the DarkSide"

    Cut to credits
     
  7. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 1, 2014
    Snoke to me is not a Sith, but something else. He could be a Dark Jedi, Mandalorian, sorcerer, etc. Something that not since before the formation of the Republic has it had the opportunity to usurp power on a galactic scale. Perhaps an ancient enemy of the Sith that was mistreated by them? We have witches who use the Dark Side, why not wizards and warlocks too that can use magic?
     
  8. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 11, 2011
    Snoke is simultaneously a Zabrak Mandolorian cyborg Vong. Calling it now. Its the only way to one up Sidious.
     
  9. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Dec 2, 2014

    Yes, makes sense to me!
     
  10. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    The problem is of course that Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi master and force user (we assume), would defeat them within seconds... so I'm not sure why they would go seeking him out other than to try and kill him. I could see them wanting to use Rey as leverage, if she turned out to be a ‘Skywalker’, but I’m not sure there’s anything they can learn from Luke (or would get a chance to learn from Luke). So I'm still of the opinion that Snoke/Uber is an ancient force user... as it's probably the only way they can convincingly depict someone who could go toe to toe with Luke.
     
  11. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

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    Nov 1, 2012
    "Snoke" could be something like The Son.
     
  12. Digladio

    Digladio Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 7, 2003
    I think he has to be the most powerful adversary yet, in order for the stakes to be high. I could see him being either an ancient Force user, or someone who went through their own journey of power (behind the scenes) during the events of the previous movies and lore. Learning the background and personal history of Snoke is one of the most interesting prospects for these new movies, IMO.
     
  13. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2014
    It seems strange that there is still a large proportion of the anti-Plagueis people who think that the reason the Plagueis camp want or suspect Plagueis to be the villain is due to some devotion to the character as presented in the novel, Plagueis.
    I can only speak for myself, but the impression I get from others as well as my own POV is that Plagueis could be (as it currently is) completely decanonised as far as I'm concerned - no Hego Damask, no Plagueis active during TPM etc, and it would still make sense to use a character called Darth Plagueis as the best way to keep the Sith involved, and to make sure the stakes are raised for the sequel trilogy.
    This may or may not happen, and it's looking less likely now we have a name for Serkis's character.
    But I stand by that Star Wars needs a Darth character, and either Kylo or Snoke has a Darth name that is as yet unknown, or they will gain the title at some point.

    The baddies will use the dark side of the Force, and in the movies that will mean Sith
     
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  14. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    Yes I agree. By virtue of having Luke in the story (not just TFA but Ep VIII we assume) there then needs to be an 'anti-Luke'... and that must be someone at least as powerful as Palpatine. The only other possibility (if we're talking force users) is that whilst Kylo Ren and Snoke may be weaker than Luke, they manage to unlock/discover something/someone that gives them an advantage... and something/someone not as easily beaten by Luke.
     
  15. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    Maybe Snoke is a...Sorcerer of Tund? He's really Rokur Gepta. :p
     
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  16. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    The way I see it is that Snoke is certainly a smokescreen name. They're hiding something/someone. If there is a need to do this, then the real name must give an AH-HAH moment. Doesn't have to be Plagueis but Plagueis is one other name of an evil Sith that has ever been mentioned in any SW movie. It could be Bane, Revan, Mortis, Ruin, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, or any host of other Sithies. To hide a name that has never been used is pointless. To use a name like Snoke as the only name is even more ridiculous. Plagueis just seems to be in the forefront of some people's minds because, as I said, he's been mentioned and is directly associated with Palpatine.
     
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  17. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014

    That's good. Also to throw into that pot - Snoke and the Heir of Darth Vader breaking the wanted extremist and murderer Luke Skywalker in front of the galaxy could be a great propaganda coup for the First Order. After breaking him, Kylo and Snoke could mine him for all the knowledge they want.
     
  18. Wildcatbarry

    Wildcatbarry Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 23, 2015
    If this theory is correct then I think that makes Rey Luke's daughter.

    Hence the reason Kylo captures her.
     
  19. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    I think all of these things fit together well, including this post from Darth Chiznuk

    So Luke has different kinds of knowledge Kylo and Snoke would want: 1. Knowledge of the darkside and possibly Sith specific knowledge. 2. Knowledge about the true nature of Anakin Skywalker/Vader.

    Add to this the fact Skywalker is probably portrayed by Imperial propaganda as war criminal, and I think we have plenty of good reasons why they want him -- also the most obvious, he's a physical threat that must be eliminated.
     
  20. IriomoteYamanexu

    IriomoteYamanexu Jedi Youngling

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    Apr 23, 2015
    I don't think Snoke is a Sith, I think there's a lot more to this than the evil Master/Apprentice vs. Luke and the good guys for three straight movies. Just as there was scarcely a mention of the Emperor until he showed up speaking to Vader in ESB, we could get someone even larger in VIII or IX.
     
  21. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 8, 2002
    Of all the scenarios that could play out, what is the most probable?

    Here are my favorites...

    Hego Damask, a.k.a. Darth Plagueis, is alive and well and has taken up the new name of Snoke.
    The Emperor had a secret apprentice during the time of the Rebellion and now this apprentice has taken control of the Empire and renamed it the First Order.
    Snoke is someone entirely new and was just some Sith Lord hiding out in the outer rim waiting for an opportunity to make his move.
    Snoke is actually someone well known, but hadn't been seen in centuries, and perhaps the same Sith Emperor who had ruled the Galaxy in the past.
    There's a family connection to Shmi Skywalker that they have yet to reveal, like where she originated from.

    So many possibilities. But, again, the question remains. Of all these scenarios, and not excluding your own idea, what is the most probable scenario?
     
  22. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 26, 2014
    Maybe the Sith are extinct, but The First Order could be a new order devoted to Vader. Kylo Ren clearly has a Vader obsession. Snoke could as well or maybe he just uses the iconography of Vader to further his power.
     
  23. Rabs

    Rabs Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 15, 2014
    I think Snoke is ancient so he could easily be a long lost Sith in which case Kylo would be a Sith. They could also have Vader's holocron if he had one, and if so, they could be using that to learn Sith ways. Wouldn't be too hard if they already use the Darkside of the Force. That alone is the first step to becoming a Sith. If he wants, JJ could easily bring back the Sith and make it believable.
     
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  24. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    There is too much to be realized by the Sith for them to be extinct.
     
  25. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Personally, I'm a huge fan of this post.
    This post uses the 2000 BBY date from the TPM novelization because it was written before we knew about the Sith shrine below the Jedi temple.
     
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